Author Topic: Did he or didn't he  (Read 2197 times)

Offline weemary

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Did he or didn't he
« on: Saturday 19 May 12 08:02 BST (UK) »
That is the question -  sorry for the long read. ( even more confusing cousins married cousins) hubby must be his own cousin many times removed :o  don't even know where to start to try and work it out ???



William was a rivetter , probably working on one of the shipyards of Greenock or Port Glasgow. In 1872, he married his cousin Helen Kerr. Between then and 1884 they had 6 children.

The register of deaths  records that on Saturday 20th of June 1885, William died in the River Clyde near Garvel Point, Greenock. The cause of death was given as "drowning, accidental". The body was found at 7.30am on 3rd July 1885 opposite the ship building yard of Messrs Blackwood & Gordon, Port Glasgow.

The death was registered by Peter McPhail of 8 Springkell Street, Greenock, described as "brother in law".
After William's reported death, his wife Helen remarried to Edward McPhail. However in the 1901 census [3], William and Helen's son Peter is not with the McPhails, but a Peter Union of the correct age is staying nearby with his father Wm Union of the age to be the supposedly dead William. Is this a coincidence, or was William's reported death in 1885 a convenient case of mistaken identity?

A fictional but plausible theory, based entirely on speculation, is as follows.
After 13 years of marriage, the relationship between William and Helen has broken down, and William is spending more and more time away from home. Helen is friendly with the McPhail family; her sister Elizabeth is married to Peter McPhail, and Helen's son Peter was named after him.

 One day, Helen hears that a body has been found floating in the river nearby. William has not returned home for several days, and Peter McPhail agrees to investigate whether the body might be William's. The body has been in the river for two weeks and is not easily recognisable but there is nothing to say it is not William, so Peter makes a positive identification

. The inquest has no reason not to ratify this conclusion. Helen, now free of her husband William, marries Peter's widower relative Edward McPhail, who makes a good husband and father to her family.
Meanwhile, William hears of his reported death.

He recognises this as a good opportunity to escape from the financial responsibilities of his family, and decides to lie low for a while. However he is still living in Greenock, so it is only a matter of time before he is seen by Helen or one of his children. But life for the family has been much better since William's departure, and it is in nobody's interests to inform the authorities; understandably, they all turn a blind eye. Eventually however, William is visited by his son Peter, who even occasionally stays overnight at his home.

Thus when the census is taken sixteen years after William's reported death, his situation is well accepted in the family, and William has no hesitation in giving his real name to the census enumerator, and identifying his son Peter who is staying with him at the time. And William was quite right to believe that the significance of his presence would not be noticed. Not, that is, until 100 years later......
This story would also explain the apparent rejection many years later of the name Union by William's son William, in favour of his mother Helen's name, Kerr.

Or an alternative theory:

In 1901, William is indeed dead, and his son William is living with his wife Helen and housekeeper Margaret Noble at 24 Cartsburn Street, Greenock. When the census enumerator calls to help complete the census form, William and his wife are not at home, but William's 16-year-old brother Peter is there. The enumerator asks the lad for the name of the head of the house and for his own name, and is told William and Peter Union. He then jumps to the conclusion that they are father and son, and asks Peter for age, occupation, etc of his father, which are entered under William's name.

An unlikely scenario, but just possible.
Beaton Bethune, Campbell -  ROC
Mitchell Leslie - Aberdeen
Mackintosh, Anderson (Provost) -  Inverness
Boyle, Mckechnie, McPhail, Fulton  - Ireland, Greenock, Kilbrachan
Pearce, Curnoe/Curnow -  Cornwall
Patterson, Robson, Sloan, Campbell, Dixon, Wilson, Ritson, Hedley, Vipond, Coulson -  South Shields, Sunderland, Northumberland, Cumberland
Kitcheham/Kitchingham, Gage -  Kent

Offline jen5525

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Re: Did he or didn't he
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 March 17 22:07 GMT (UK) »
I just came across this post.  Absolutely fascinating!  I have no relation to any of the people in this story, but am curious whether you've uncovered any more information to support your theories.  It's like a soap opera!
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline scotmum

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Re: Did he or didn't he
« Reply #2 on: Monday 13 March 17 22:20 GMT (UK) »
According to their profile, weemary hasn't been active for a few years.

Here is what I found this evening:

There were two chaps drowned together, the second was named James McDade. They had set off together in the boat and it was soon seen by others to be taking on water. It was windy. The boat suddenly disappeared. One of the men was seen clinging to what was possibly an oar, before going under.

For full article, see The Scotsman, June 22 1885.

So, I think he did.
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Offline jen5525

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Re: Did he or didn't he
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 March 17 00:27 GMT (UK) »
wow...that's really intriguing!  I think I'm not making as good use of sources as I could be.  Have never heard of The Scotsman (must be a local newspaper?).  Where/how can I get access to that? 
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey


Offline scotmum

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Re: Did he or didn't he
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 14 March 17 13:44 GMT (UK) »
A huge number of newspapers are available via FindMyPast, British Newspaper Archives etc. Cost is usually by subscription and/or purchase of credits (even their basic search, which is free, can often throw up enough detail to help you).

Many libraries often hold old newspapers for their immediate area on microfilm too, and you can while away many an hour pouring through same. As well as sometimes finding mention of ancestors, it can be a great way of learning more of the social history from various timescales and its impact on local people and places. The adverts can often be quite enjoyable too.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .