Expertese sought -tracking Yorkshire ancestor born pre 1710

[hanleyp]

Thanks Stu ,

Few points that spring to mind.

William Hirst was born 72 years after my Thomas --much more into the industrial revolution ( with increased job opportunities/travel opportunities  )  and in Huddersfield --an area I would take as far more exposed to the Industrial revolution than the farming areas of the East Riding which was largely untouched by it.


William did have a family member in the trade --his uncle a carrier . I would not have thought most AL -especially those in remote farming areas -would have such a connection .

Article does not say what Williams parents did-so don't know if they were AL . Reading between lines Huddersfield does not appear to be a significant farming ( crops -wheat etc) area and William at 10 worked in gardens-estate work ?

As a 15 year old boy William did indeed travel a long way (abt 40 miles) to Bawtrey . He did this  however without the knowledge of his parents --( or anyone else for that matter ) and as he says he travelled such a distance  purposely to go to the "Low country" to obtain harvest work .

Whether he would have travelled 40 miles if good farming lands existed closer would be another question . Also whether he would normally have been sent home then --or 70 years earlier-- when relocation between  parishes may have been more rigidly controlled-- is also a question.

Interesting to note that when his family found out where he had moved to his brother came to try and get him back home . Clearly at 15/16 he was still deemed too young to undertake such a relocation .

As it turns out I think it quite fortunate for William that he survived his long trip and managed to find employment . As he states they had not thought anything through and came 2 weeks before harvesting . Had William not been fortunate to find employment with "the best farmer in the area" I think it most likely he would have been very soon forced to return to Huddersfield. You don't last long without food --the ultimate need for survival

In my Thomas's case I think it probably that employment would be found through the hiring fairs . That way at least there was some guarantee of work. At the same time -unless job offers were very secure , it seems logical that the fall back position -if no work and no food - would be  get back to family.

Logically for both him and the parish system at the time ( which looked after the welfare of the needy ) there is a positive reason for AL not to relocate too far -if that was an option .

 To now I have formed the view that 30 mile plus relocation of Thomas --as an AL in ERY at age 21 in  1725 -.as unlikely.  The circumstances of William's travel experience of a  40 mile travel journey at 15 from Huddersfield really does not alter that view.


Thomas children and grandchildren all worked in Sutton upon Derwent as AL  for the next 100 years-with his great grand child also an AL less than 10 miles from Sutton . I have two great uncles in 1920s still employed on farms -one as a shepherd , the other on an harvester.

That seems to say to me that ERY was a strong farming county with little movement of people relative to the industrial counties -Lancashire , WRY , Midlands -until the railways came along.

At the time my relatives started to move around the county. Before then they did not -only a few miles .

Anyway obliged for your response --all makes for good thinking --and on-going comments  from others

Regards Phil Hanley

[hanleyp]

26 September 2015- latest progress update .

I note that there is almost 10,000 views of this posting -so hopefully it is helpful to others.

In the interest of continuing to help others --with similar searches-- this is my latest report of progress in trying to locate Thomas Hanley.

As in earlier message-- located Thomas Handley born Jan 1705 ( our calendar) in Great Driffield via BT ( Bishop Transcript -annual summary of Parish BMDs sent to area bishop) on FindMyPast. I believe these BTs may have been obtained from Borthwick.

Noted -on GENUKI England web site- that BTs from 1600-1720 are quite incomplete - perhaps 10-15% captured -both for Great Driffield and surrounding parishes ..

Organised ERYO to search the parish records for Great Driffield plus the seven surrounding parishes
(Little Driffield, Kilham, Langtoft, Garton ,Kirkburn ,Hutton Cranswick and Skerne) for the marriage and death of Thomas  .
Noted on GENUKI site  that all these parish records held by EYRO as being complete almost from 1600 on .

Their search advised no marriage or death of Thomas Hanley/Handley to be found in these parishes. This then  does not rule out possibility that Thomas born Gt Driffield 1705 and Thomas -married 1728 in Sutton upon Derwent -maybe one and same .

From what records I have come across so far it would seem the parents of Thomas born in Gt Driffield in 1705 was Robert and Mary ( nee Tweed )-married Little Driffield 1702  . Robert looks to have been born in Little Driffield in 1675 ( father John/Johanis) and died (servant ) in Gt Driffield Jan 1726.

The siblings of Thomas from Driffield look to be Robert ( bap 1702) and John  ( bap 1707) plus two with name Hanlon that I think are likely siblings ---William ( bap 1712 ) and Mary ( bap 1717).

There is a death of a  John Hanley in Gt Driffield in 1691 -with a probate . Don't know whether worth getting a copy as before 1705 .

So what I can make of all that down the track? Think will have to wait until EYRO parish records are on-line . EYRO advise they are working through them.

Interesting that one high profile ancestry site advised -"we have millions of BMD records on our site-but still have millions to add".

I will see later if a  thorough search of EY parish records can build up the probability that Thomas of Sutton upon Derwent may have been born in Gt Driffield in Jan 1705.--or even find another  Thomas Hanley born 1705.

Philip Hanley

[hanleyp]

For the record/interest/help of others
Latest update -27 Oct 2015. Philip Hanley - 3+ years down the track searching for the birth  of Thomas Handley -married 1728

Current task at hand is to see if I strengthen, or rule out, the link that  Thomas Handley /Hanley -born Great Driffield Jan 1705 ( father Robert) may be the same person as the Thomas Hanley ( agricultural labourer ) who married in Sutton upon Derwent in 1728 ( 21 miles away )--and who is my  direct ancestor .
Known for certain that Thomas was not born of Sutton -and in 1729 had been in the parish for about 4 years .Age stated in Dec 1729 as "about 25" making his year of birth 1704/5.

Finding a Thomas born 1705 in Driffield only happened  in the last 6 months. Before then could not find a Thomas born anywhere at this time . Based  on the large Hanley population in WRY suspected Thomas was born in the north of West riding though the distance away from Sutton seemed to make it possible rather than probable.

ERYO identified no sign of Thomas' marriage or death in Driffield or adjacent parishes. Note Bmd parish records of these as yet are not on any on-line sites.

Since my last post I have determined--
1)  No Hanley/Handley bmds exist in Driffield after first few decades of 1700s.-so that it looks as if the whole male side of the family moved out.
2) Can expect to see the remainder of ERY parish records -including Driffield-  on find my past in Jan 2016
3) Whilst Great Driffield was a sizeable market town in 1800s the population apparently only took off once  the canal was built in 1770 . Before it would have been more of a typical rural village--certainly abt 1700 and before. It did however to hold a number of annual fairs each year in the  17th century --and perhaps at these hiring took place. A 21 miles relocation  of a single man aged 21 -in these circumstances- does seem more in the probable than the possible ..

4) From findmypast came across will of Robert Handley- in 1634 -which I ordered from Borthwick . Occupation given as grassman ( as far as I can see a small- holding tenant farmer ( step above labourer) who stuck to grazing animals -and had possibly a  small amount of free hold land . Will and testament makes interesting reading -- wife Rosalund, children Herbert, William, John and Elizabeth.

5) Also obtained a copy of grant of administration for Johanis (John)  Hanley of Great Driffield to administer estate of Eliza Hanley in 1691.

Looking at historical accounts of England in 17th century it seems logical to expect that a Husbandman ( arable tenant famer ) and a  Grassman ( neither of whom had any sizeable free land ) would likely be squeezed out of farming in the next 70-100 years-and end up a hired worker.Thus the reason why the Hanley males would have left Driffield.  Certainly the land enclosures and the land purchasing by the wealthy in the 17th and 18th century makes interesting reading . Worse of course was to follow the lot of the common man in the 19th century .

My thinking is,  given a smallish population of Great Driffield in the 17th century. that the Robert who died  1634 and the Thomas who was born 1705 are likely directly related . So my next step is  to search the parish records -when on line in FindMyPast-  to see if I can establish the family line between two .

I already have a BT in which a Robert Handley was born in Great Driffield in 1675- father Johannis  (John). John then may well be the one who gained administering rights to Eliza Hanley's estate in 1691 -in which case Eliza would likely be his mother.

Then to establish the likely places where Thomas's  ( b Driffield 1705)  siblings may have moved too . This may shed some light as to whether Thomas may have moved to Sutton upon Derwent.
Suspect one of his brothers may have moved to Beverley 11 miles away ..

Given the bmd records of Driffield and surrounding parishes seem quite complete in 17th  century  and that these may be with FindMyPast in Jan,  I am hoping this can be done early 2016.

Keep me out of mischief anyway

Will update on findings .
Philip Hanley .

[EmHandley]

Hi Phillip,

I'm also currently hunting down the same man you've mentioned here; Thomas Hanley, likely born in Driffield, Yorkshire. I'm a distant relative of Louise's (she replied to your post some time prior) who is also a Tasmanian. My line comes from James Handley, who emigrated/was sent to Tasmania in 1855 with his wife and children. He died young, and his wife returned to England while his children stayed and settled down under. James was the son of James (York, Yorkshire) and Ann Hannah Corney; in turn, James senior was the son of John Handley (Fulford, Yorkshire) and Mary Sanderson; John Handley was the son of William Handley (Sutton Upon Derwent) and Ann Pearson (sometimes spelt 'Freisson'); and finally, William was apparently the son of Thomas Hanley and Emma/Emmet Johnson.

I was wondering if you'd gotten any further with the Driffeld connection for Thomas Hanley, with Robert Hanley potentially being his father? I'd love to go as far back here as I can, as I'm making a family tree as a gift to my father.

Thanks in advance!