Author Topic: Royal North Down Rifles  (Read 7985 times)

Offline soapy1

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Re: Royal North Down Rifles
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 13 January 13 21:50 GMT (UK) »
Thanks aghadowey, I just caught the topic in a Google search, since the subject was there

Thanks

Elspeth
Beresford/Beresfield/Gamble/Beck  in Co Down Ireland & Airdrie, Scotland // Burnett/Burnet in , Middlebie/Annan Areas,//  Wilson, Dornan, McAleese from Airdrie & Ireland

Offline Jlkasprick

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Re: Royal North Down Rifles
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 22 December 13 03:51 GMT (UK) »
My family member was released from the Royal North Down Rifles in 1878. He also fought later in the Zulu war and received a medal. My family still has the medal. He would have been 19 when he was released from the RNDR. What did you find out about the RNDR? Would they have taken orphans? At what age could they have joined?
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has had luck researching members of
the Royal North Down Rifles?
 As far as i know the Rifles were a volunteer Militia, made up mostly
of weavers, farmhands. Up until 1878 it was mostly made up of men from Newtownards.
 I have two relatives who were members of this militia before joining
the British Army in 1874. Did these records survive?

All help is much appreciated.

Thank you

SL

Offline Siamblue

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Re: Royal North Down Rifles
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 11 February 18 17:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi SL,

Records of the North Down Militia are held at the National Archives in Kew, London.

WO 13/2792 1843-1856
WO 13/2793 1856-1860
WO 13/2794 1860-1867
WO 13/2795 1867-1872
W0 13/2796 1872-1876

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=13073&POSCATLN=6&POSCATID=2789500

If visiting the repository personally, then I'd recommend taking a face mask and gloves.
[The materiels are very very dirty/dusty!]

----
It was quite common for such well-trained "Militia" folks to be sought by the regular army regiments.

The 2/13th (PALI) was on home garrison duty in Ireland the early/mid 1870s.
It came up thru' Newry to Belfast around this time.
Its two depot companies actively recruited men in these areas.
Some ended up being transferred to the sister regiment, the 1/13th, in Zulu land in 1877-1878!

Capt. Jock


Hi Jock. I am reasearching my Gt grandfather and although his RIRifs records were destroyed in the blitz I was wondering would the North downs records for later than 1876 be available ? My Gt grandfather signed up for the RIRifs 3rd Jan 1898 and he served in the 2nd Boer war, but I have a picture of him as a young boy/man and he is not in a army uniform, so could he have been originally in the Royal downs or Downs rifles before 1898?

Regards Gary.
Interested in the Wallace’s from Ballymena and the Shields from Carrickfergus.

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: Royal North Down Rifles
« Reply #12 on: Friday 16 February 18 01:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gary,

Yes, many record sets were destroyed during WWII.
[Including ones which had been moved out of London for safe keeping!]


The Royal North Downs were created (as the 24th Irish Militia Regiment) in 1800.
The Royal South Downs were created (as the 8th Irish Militia Regiment) at the same time.

There was a UK-wide reorganisation of Militia in 1833.
This resulted in the North Downs being designated as the 77th British Militia Regiment.
Its HQ was at Newtownards.

The Childers reforms of 1881 resulted in the creation of the Royal Irish Rifles.
This was the "County Regiment of Antrim, Down, Belfast & Louth".
Its HQ was at Victoria Barracks, Belfast.
The Royal North Down became the 3rd Battalion of this new regiment.
The Royal South Down became its 5th Battalion.

In May 1900 the RIRs 5th Battn (was RSDs), together with a 110 strong Company of Volunteers from the RIRs 3rd Battn (was RNDs), set sail for South Africa.
[132 did not return, and are commemorated by a statue in the grounds of Belfast City Hall.]
 
Sources:
https://www.royal-irish.com/stories/north-down-militia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ulster_Rifles

----

Records of the RNDs extant at Kew are listed as covering the years 1800-1876.
[I expanded the search to cover other repositories known to them, with no result.]
 
So there appears to be an intriguing gap between 1876 and 1881.
Perhaps the "The loss of pre-1885 records as a result of fire ..." statement in the first source might explain it.

To resolve this you might consider trying:
a) contacting the Research Help Desk at Kew;
b) posting in the Rootschat "Armed Forces" specialist board;
c) contacting the Royal Ulster Rifles Museum in Belfast.
      [The RIR was renamed as the RUR following partition in 1921.]

----

If your GGF had previously enlisted with the RNDs, this would have had to happen before 1882.
So, at least 16 years previous to his (re-)enlisting with the RIRs.
Could this have been possible (based on his age)?

Your photo (in civilian clothing) provides no clue.
Militia did wear uniforms, but he may simply have been snapped off-duty in a "home life" setting.
Militia membership only required part-time attendance.

Many regiments were reduced to minimal (Cadre) strength during protracted periods of peace.
Men were let go from the payroll, but were encouraged to be available for recall when needed.
[Traditionally a Regiment consisted of two Battalions:
   One on Reserve (at home, on Garrison duties);
   The other Active (in the field, under The Colours).
 Each Battalion  consisted of 10 Companies, each (ideally) of 100 men.
 Two of the Companies were designated as Depot
   (sourcing resources, recruiting, teaching, training, administration, etc.)  ]



There was no need to have served previously with a Militia regiment in order to sign up.
[However, such were targetted by the recruiting officers in the Depot companies.
 They were given extra monies in their Bounty payments!]

Anyone could simply walk up to the Barracks and ask to be considered for enlistment.
Often several "pals" would join up at the same time.


If your GGF had had previous service prior to 1898, there should be some indication of this on his enlistment papers and/or the Paylist at the time he joined.

So, perhaps chasing the RIR records from 1898 should be your first port of call.
[Caveat: At times of mass recruitment/mobilisation, particularly in response to urgent international political goals, the standards of detailed records keeping were relaxed, sometimes  very considerably, in the name of immediate efficiency ...]

----

Hope that this helps you a bit.

Capt. Jock

ADDENDUM:

If he served in the RIR until at least 1920 his details should be available online within the UK's National Army Museum's collections.  This includes the enlistment books of the five Irish regiments disbanded in 1922 (viz. The Connaught Rangers, the Leinster Regiment, the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, the Royal Irish Regiment and the Royal Munster Fusiliers):

https://www.nam.ac.uk/soldiers-records/persons
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/royal-irish-regiment
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]