Freeman family - Haverfordwest

[Orrishmeres]

Hi
I sam researching James Freeman, one of two brothers, James and Willian Webb Glover Freeman,  who came to Australia in the mid 1850's, and established Freeman Brothers, photographers, a hugely successfull enterprise.  They were the sons of James Freeman and Lucy Lowder Glover.  From records have established that James, a widow, married "Miss Louisa Goode, of Tenby"in 1850 at Bedminster.  He was a widower when he married, but don't know details of the marriage.  Biographies online state that they had children but no details, and shipping records do not often give passenger lists for unassisted immigrants to Australia.  If available they often state Mr and Mrs and family. Both brothers returned to England where James died 22 Oct 1870 at Haverfordwest,Pembrokeshire, Wales.  Evidently his wife stayed on and Louisa died bet Jul-Sep 1883 at the same place.  William returned to Australis where he died in 1909.  I would like to know if anyone can help find any children that may have also stayed in Wales with their mother.

THanks

Moderator Comment: Topic split from older thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572848.0.html

[Orielbenfro]

I am a little confused (old age) by the details given, however I believe your interest lies in Louisa Freeman widow who aged 70 resided at Foley Cottage H’west St Mary in 1881, born at Lampeter (or possibly Lampeter Velfrey).
It can only be hoped that of all the parishes, chapels and registry offices within the Haverfordwest Registration District that James Freeman aged 56 who died in 1870 was also at H’west St Mary, but quite often that is not the case.
Perhaps James (like so many of us after a lifetime away) was drawn back to his roots, if so the only logical baptism would appear to be in 1813 at Martletwy, IGI confirms this as 28 Nov 1813 to Thomas & Sarah Freeman. I note that Thomas Freeman had mrd Sarah Hitchings at Loveston in 1796.
Louisa would have been a widow at her mrge in the 3rd qtr of 1850 to James Freeman in the Bedminster Reg District Volume 11 Page 71. A look at her mrge certificate will shown her father’s full name and by inference her maiden name when she mrd Mr Goode sometime previous.
It might just be a coincidence but a George Goode was registered deceased in the Bedminster registration district in 1842. There is no mrge of a Mr Goode to a Louisa (surname unknown) in H’west or Tenby area circa 1829 to 1840, perhaps at present one can presume that Louisa and family resided in the Bristol area prior to her mrge to a Mr Goode.
I will leave others to search further census, since I do not have any index for my census copies, but I will check out the burial entries and hopefully find them at H’west St Mary for you, alas any info found will not lead any further to family, but will only be of interest.
One last problem that might occur is that it is rather common for a widow on re-mrge to give her children of that previous mrge the same surname as that of her 2nd mrge without course to any documentation, a problem I have met previous.
Further speculation indicates that a Joseph Freeman was deceased in one of the parishes or chapels covered by the H’west registration district aged 61 yrs in 1886. Whilst his age may be somewhat in question I also note that a Joseph Freeman was baptised at Newton North(next parish above Loveston) in 1822 again to Thomas & Sarah Freeman, so he might just be a brother to your James (A very big if ~ my speculation is correct).
I look forward to what others might have to offer.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

[BECA]

There's obviously crossed lines here - the Freemen I was enquiring about is the Guild of Freemen not a family name Freemen.

Topic Split for clarity

[Orielbenfro]

There's obviously crossed lines here - the Freemen I was enquiring about is the Guild of Freemen not a family name Freemen.

Please forgive my utter confusion, but Lucy Lowder Freeman died in 1846 in the Pembroke Registration District, probably Tenby.
Where am I going wrong when all Freeman surnames fit the queries you are after.
None of the surnames Lowder, Glover, Freeman et al are covered in my 15,000 named Burgess and Freeman of Pembroke Borough which covers Tenby and many other Pembroke parishes beside. Webb is listed but none for the areas of your interest.
So confused, put it down to dotage and will not take up any more of your time.
Rgds
Orielbenfro

[Morganllan]

Hello Orrishmeres 

Welcome to Rootschat!

I have split your posting into a new thread because it was causing confusion!

Orielbenfro has kindly supplied some very useful information in reponse, but BECA replied to say there were crossed lines because the original topic was about Freemen as opposed to the Freeman family!

Hopefully having them as 2 separate threads will help avoid confusion.

This link gives advice on posting new topics:
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting.php

Kind Regards
Morgan

[Orrishmeres]

Hi

Sorry for causing confusion with the thread - I hope it was not too confusing.

I will  clear up some of my errors in my posting: have found 1841 Wales Census for Louisa Goode of Tenby, living at High Street, Norton, Pembrokeshire, Wales,occupation "business". born abt 1791, with her sister ? Jane.  This ties her in with the marriage to James Freeman:
The Bristol Mercury (Bristol, England), Saturday, August 10, 1850;
Marriage
August 1, at Bristol, Mr James Freeman, of Victoria-park, Bath, to Miss Louisa Good, of Tenby

James and Louisa returned to England in 1867:
From biography online
"
The Freemans returned to England in 1867 and William in 1868, leaving the business in the hands of their staff. In January 1867 James Freeman went to England leaving his brother and their partner Victor A. Prout to take control of the business. Why James left is unclear, perhaps illness or an argument but it was clearly unexpected for it was February before the official notice of his retirement from the studio of ‘Freeman Brothers and Prout’ was published in the papers. From this date William and Victor Prout took over the formal management under the name of ‘Freeman and Prout. William came back to Sydney after the death of James in 1870 and continued to produce carte-de-visite and larger portraits from several premises along George Street."

SMH 16 January 1867
DARLINGHURST.  THURSDAY, January 23rd.
Preliminary Notice.  Superior Household Furniture and Effects.
MESSRS. CHANDLER and CO. have received instructions from James Freeman, Esq., to sell by auction, at his residence, Liverpool- street. Darlinghurst, on THURSDAY, January 23rd, at11 o'clock,
The whole of his superior household furniture and effects (prior to his departure for England). Full particulars will be duly published.  The house to be let

SMH 25 January 1867
THIS DAY, Friday, January 25th. - At the Residence of James Freeman, Esq., Liverpool-street, Darlinghurst.
SUPERIOR  Household Furniture and Effects Comprising- Drawing-room Suite, in walnut, covered in crimson damask, with loose chintz covers,Shaped Oval Table, Card Tables, Oval Telescope Dining Table
Spanish Mahogany Sideboard, Chairs, Couches, Girandole in leather, work frame,  Chimney Glasses in gilt frames -
Handsome Glass Chandelier, Iron Bedsteads Mattresses, etc. Chest Drawers, Washstands, etc
Brussels Carpets,  Very choice Engravings, Water Colour and Oil  Paintings, Photographs, etc.
Best Cat Glassware, China, Dinner Services, Crockery, and Earthenware, .Kitchen Utensils, and general Household-Requisites,  Also, A brilliant-toned Rosewood Cottage Pianoforte,
MESSRS. CHANDLER and  CO. have received instructions from James' Freeman, Esq., (who is leaving for England,) to sell by auction  at his residence, Liverpool-street, Darlinghurst THIS DAY, Friday, January 25th, at ll o’clock, The whole of. his superior furniture, engravings, pianoforte, and effects.
Sydney Morning Herald  12 Feb 1867
NOTICE is hereby given, that Mr. JAMES FREEMAN has THIS DAY RETIRED from the firm of FREEMAN, BROTHERS, and PROUT, and that the business will henceforth be conducted by Messrs W. G. M. Freeman and Victor A. Prout, under the style of FREEMAN and PROUT, by which latter firm all Accounts owing to, and all Debts due from, Freeman Brothers, and Prout, will  be  received and discharged respectively.
Dated this 1st day of February, 1867 .
JAMES FREEMAN,  W. G. W. FREEMAN, VICTOR A. PROUT   Witness-G. P. SLADE, solicitor, Sydney

From 1841 Census Louisa would have been past childbearing
age by the time she married James in 1850, so that any children would have been from his first marriage, which I have not been able to find.

So, the Louisa Freeman who died in 1883 could be his widow.  I will order both of their death certificates, hoping for more detail.  NSW death certificates usually supply the number and names  of children, their ages at time of the parents death, which is most helpful.

Thanks for the information provided so far.  It would be great to learn of the family of Louisa.

Once again thanks for help

[wilcoxon]

They were the sons of James Freeman and Lucy Lowder Glover.  From records have established that James, a widow, married "Miss Louisa Goode, of Tenby"in 1850 at  Bedminster

Is it a coincidence that an advert for a sermon was published in the Bristol Mercury Feb 1839 ,  " The Faithful Prophet " on the death of the Rev William Lowder Glover A. M. late minister of St Pauls Church Bedminister on Sunday morning Nov 18th 1838.

 Another article states that he died Nov 7th 1838.

Jackson's Oxford Journal  May 22, 1847
Death . At Clifton, Rebecca , relict of the late Rev William Lowder Glover. late minister of St Pauls Church Bedminister

1841  7 Albermarle Row ? Clifton
Rebecca Glover 60 Ind b Y
Frederick Cooke 13 b N
Lucy Cooke 11 b N
Emma Amos 20 FS b Y
Elizabeth Amos 15 FS b Y
 
 
 

[wilcoxon]

Could this be linked   . Found on here . Records 61 to 80
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=6197

Cambrian R17 CULTURE AND THE ARTS AND SCIENCE, PHOTOGRAPHY 31 October 1851
MR.J.FREEMAN, DAGUERREOTYPE PORTRAITS,  5 PROSPECT PLACE, BURROWS, SWANSEA. 

[Orrishmeres]

Hello Orielbenfro

I am most grateful for your help is trying to sort out the family - thanks for putting me right on the death of Lucy Lowder Freeman, nee Glover.  I had found a death for her in Clifton, Gloucester but did not include the source, so will have to back track.  But it makes sense that she came from Wales, as there is a connection with her son James Freeman going back there.  I wonder I James Freeman was Welsh.

Many thanks for you most helpful information

Cheers
Orrishmeres