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Author Topic: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??  (Read 1113 times)

Offline kob3203

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Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« on: Monday 11 June 12 11:01 BST (UK) »
Context: This is an 18 month old story, still unresolved, about previous military service of Walter Williams (born c1869 Llanelli, Carms) who joined the Welsh Army Corps, Carmarthenshire Battn in WWI. as Pte 20212 Williams, Walter (and he lied about his age).

On his attestation papers (dated 1 Feb 1915) he states that he previously served in the Carmarthen RGA.

However, when I was in the UK a year ago I checked the 2 boxes of WO96 papers for the Carmarthen RGA and found no papers for him.

I've just noticed that WO96 is completed and online at FindMyPast now (my family history research has been on ice for several months). Same result - no Walter Williams attestation for Carmarthen RGA. I expanded the search to ALL the RGA units in the hope that he might have been in the wrong box. But the only serviceman of that name is from Isle of Wight, and served in the Hampshire & Isle Of Wight RGA.

Simple query - is failure to find a record for Carmarthen (or any other) RGA attestation 'proof' that he lied about previous service too?

If not, is there any other way I could chase this story up (I plan to visit the UK again in a month or so and hope to visit TNA)
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 June 12 14:39 BST (UK) »
...or to put it another way - is 781 a likely TOTAL number of servicemen to have served in the Carmarthen RGA over a period of X years?

Because if I search the "British Army Service Records 1760-1915" records on FindMyPast, and JUST select Regiment = "Royal Garrison Artillery - Carmarthen" I get 781 names.

And I guesstimate that the attestation records cover a 30 year period (based solely, and stab-in-the-darkishly on the rough range of birth years being about 1857 to 1890) meaning an average of 26 men joining each year.

Based on that bit of wet-thumb-in-the-wind speculation it seems low to me...
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline danuslave

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Re: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 June 12 16:52 BST (UK) »
I trained as a scientist and we were always told

1 Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence

2  You can't prove a negative statement

No reason why the same logic shouldn't apply to genealogy   :o ::)

Linda
MOXHAM/MOXAM - Wiltshire & Surrey
SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
and
SWINBANK - anywhere

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kob3203

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Re: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 June 12 05:39 BST (UK) »
Agreed! Whenever I can't find a record I always assume that it's there but I've somehow missed it - mis-transcriptions is the hot favourite (I've been caught out a number of times in the past).

But with this Carmarthen RGA thing I've checked the originals myself (sitting in the original documents reading room at TNA with the two boxes last year), and searched the online FindMyPast database over the past week or so for any possible mistranscriptions/misfilings.

I'm left with these possibilities, and I'm trying to put them in order of likelihood (this is my best guess at present, most likely first):

1) He served in the Carmarthen RGA but his papers don't exist any more.
2) He never served in the Carmarthen RGA and lied about previous service when he signed up for WWI. I think this is unlikely as I don't see why he'd do that?
3) He served in the Carmarthen RGA but gave false information (so his records are there, but there's hardly any chance of finding them). I think this is unlikely too as I don't see why he'd do that?

-----

I guess what I'm really trying to find out is the probability of his papers not existing (possibility 1). So I'm wondering what proportion of men who served in a particular militia unit will have records in WO96. Is the figure around 99.9% (i.e. all records should be there), or is it significantly smaller? I was hoping that this information would be on the FindMyPast/Ancestry/TNA websites in the notes for the relevant collection, but I can't see any 'coverage' information.

Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline Joy Dale

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Re: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 17 June 12 18:35 BST (UK) »
Hi there - I had a big surprise last night when I typed my father's name into Google and up came your reply re his mother's maiden name.  I have just registered with Rootschat and hope to hear from you.   Do you know my family?   Jack had three daughters - Lynda ~(me), Vicky and Julie.  I did not know his mother's maiden name - so ALL VERY INTERESTING.....  THANKS

Offline kob3203

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Re: Is ABSENCE of a WO96 record PROOF that a man did NOT join the militia??
« Reply #5 on: Monday 18 June 12 11:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Joy Dale, and welcome to Rootschat!

Regarding our possible familial connection, I've sent you a PM (personal message). When you next log in to RootsChat check at the very top of the page - there should a message welcoming you back, and telling you how many messages you have, plus some other stuff.

If you don't see any PMs don't worry. You may have to make a couple of posts in the forums before you can use the personal messaging. It's also worth checking the Beginners Forum to help find your feet - loads of very friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable people here at RootsChat!
(Edited to add that the RootsChat FAQ here http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php says you need to make THREE posts in the forums before you can use PMs.)

But just in case you can't get at your personal messages straight away can you give me a clue - which branch of my tree, and which generation (rough birth year) do you think your father Jack might fit into?



(mods/admins - I know this thread may be going a bit OT, but a little bit of patience to help a new RootsChatter to find their footing would be appreciated!)


Edit (12th July 2012): Joy Dale - I've asked various relations, and from the limited info you've given nobody recognises your Jack. Seems like a red herring to me.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)
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