Author Topic: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams  (Read 5058 times)

Offline paul3

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Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« on: Monday 18 June 12 19:13 BST (UK) »
My g*3 grandparents were David Williams and Sarah James

They married in Pencarreg Parish in 1847 and were living there in 1851. David died between 1851 and 1861 and Sarah moved to Aberdare.

They married on 1st May 1847 in Pencarreg Parish church - both of full age, David was a carpenter residing at 'Cwmanne' whose father was William Williams - a Smith. Sarah was residing Gellifach and her father was John James a shoe-maker. Witnesses were John James (father?) and Thomas Davies.

In the 1851 census they were living in Cwmann -
David Williams 27 carpenter b St George the Martyr Surrey
Sarah Williams 27 b Pencarreg
David Willaims 2 b Pencarreg
Hannah Williams 1 b Pencarreg

I can find a few candidates for them in 1841 but nothing convincing & David may well have still been in London where he was born. I am particularly looking for Sarah's father; John James shoemaker who looks like one of the witnesses - the only candidates I find for him in 1841 and 1851 look too young.

Could someone help me with a lookup in the Parish records of Sarah James birth ( ca 1823 ?) to John James - and ideally any siblings? And any other ideas about these two families?

thanks very much
Paul Watkins
Butler Isaac Williams Gullon Welham Cooper Porritt

Offline haydon

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Re: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 July 12 13:38 BST (UK) »
do you have any info on william wiliams the black smith.  all the best  haydon
gillgrass or gilgrass  berkshire aberdare and rhondda vallies  tilley  bristol  easley rhondda  savery  bristol

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 July 12 14:48 BST (UK) »


Sarah was residing Gellifach and her father was John James a shoe-maker. Witnesses were John James (father?) and Thomas Davies.

In the 1851 census they were living in Cwmann -
David Williams 27 carpenter b St George the Martyr Surrey
Sarah Williams 27 b Pencarreg
David Willaims 2 b Pencarreg
Hannah Williams 1 b Pencarreg


May just be a coincidence 1841c John James shoemaker perhaps he could be her brother and he was the one that witnessed her marriage  :-\

HO107 P 1380 Book: 24; Civil Parish: Pencarreg ED 5 F: 20  Page: 2
John James 25 Shoe m
Mary 25
David 2
All born in this county

Could this be Sarah on the 1841 census

HO107 P 1380; Book: 24; Civil Parish: Pencarreg ED 5; F 28 Page: 18;
Cilgellisaf Pencarreg (Head Rees Rees 60 Farmer)
Sarah James 15 F S (female servant) ‘Y’


David was a carpenter residing at 'Cwmanne' whose father was William Williams - Smith

1851c David Williams 27 carpenter b St George the Martyr Surrey

this looks as if it maybe husband David's baptism

David William born 3 Oct 1823 bapt. 7 Nov 1824 St George the Martyr
Father William Williams occ Smith mother Hannah Davis
Abode Castle Street Borough






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Offline paul3

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Re: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 07 July 12 21:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much for your reply.

I think the John James (b ca 1815 Pencarreg) you mention potentially being Sarah's brother is a real possibility - I find him again in 1851 and then between 1861 and 1891 in Aberdare ( where Sarah herself moves to) In Aberdare he is with a younger brother James ( b ca  1822 Pencarreg) of a similar age to Sarah & when I look at the record you indicate for Sarah in 1841 then next door in 'outhouse' is living a James James aged 15.

So if the James James living next to Sarah in 1841 is the same one as living with John James later in Aberdare we have a link. There is also a Margaret James (sister) b ca 1832 living with John in 1891 - she would be a younger sister to Sarah.

So if they are siblings with a father John James he would have been born ca 1790-95, married ca 1810-15 and may have died before 1841 - I can't find Margaret James (b ca 1832) in 1841.

Do you know if there are Parish records anywhere in which I could search for the births of any of these supposed sibling or marriages of their supposed father ?

As for David William's parents - I'd love to find them - my family is 'blessed' with many many different branches of Williamses and it took me 4 years to trace him with some confidence. I also saw the record you mention registered at St George the Martyr & it looks tempting but I'd need to find out more about that family - and why is William in Pencarreg at all ? - I cant find a potential father William Williams living in 1841 that looks convincing - either in London or Pencarreg. Any help most welocme

thank you again
Paul
Butler Isaac Williams Gullon Welham Cooper Porritt


Offline paul3

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Re: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 07 July 12 21:57 BST (UK) »
do you have any info on william wiliams the black smith.  all the best  haydon


I'm afraid the only info I have is on his son David's marriage certificate which referes to William Williams occupation Smith. David is shown in the 1851 census as being born ca 1823 in Surrey St George the Martyr - and he could be the birth registered  as born 3/10/1823 in that Parish to William Williams and Hannah Davis - but I cant find William and Hannah in 1841 or 1851 & know nothing about them. David would need a reason to be living in Pencarreg if he was born in London - perhaps his parents came from there? what I really need ot know is the whereabouts of Parish records if they exist

thanks very much

Paul
Butler Isaac Williams Gullon Welham Cooper Porritt

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Pencarreg - Sarah James and David Williams
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 July 12 09:02 BST (UK) »
You may want to look check out these two families living Pencarreg,
a James with occ S'maker & Williams occ Smith with a son named David

HO107 P 1380; Book: 24; Civil Parish: PencarregED 4; F 13 Page 17
Mary James 56 widow
James 21 (1820) Shoe Maker
David 12
All born in this county

HO107 P 1380; Book: 24; Civil Parish
ErrorSPAM
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]Pencarreg [/color]ED 4; F 8 Page: 8

Wm Williams
35 Smith
Mary 35
DAVID 13
William 9
John 7
Thomas 4
Only Mary noted as born in this County 'Y' all others 'N'
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Offline crowkie

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Re: Pencarreg - James Williams esq of Dolgwym Pencarreg
« Reply #6 on: Monday 11 December 17 17:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I am on the hunt for gravestones of the family of James Williams esq of Dolgwym Pencarreg (abt 1640-1695.) I wonder if anyone has seen his gravestone at St Patrick's Pencarreg? His wife was Mary and his children John, Rachel, Samuel and James (all born between 1666 and 1690.) Any feedback would be greatly appreciated: Seasons Greetings to All  :)