Author Topic: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia  (Read 7173 times)

Offline clx

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Re: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia
« Reply #36 on: Saturday 07 July 12 02:19 BST (UK) »
Perhaps this will help


1880 Census: Instructions to Enumerators includes Duties Of Enumerators 

http://usa.ipums.org/usa/voliii/inst1880.shtml

Perhaps it isn't the wrong name on the marriage certificate and we just haven't found the family he belonged to  ???

Sandra

Thank you Sandra, this was very interesting to read. I noted "Seafaring men are to be reported at their land homes, no matter how long they may have been absent, if they are supposed to be still alive."  I doubt he would have been a sailor from Indiana. James was recorded as being a boilermaker in Australia. But it is an aspect of the US census worth remembering when men seem to vanish.

Cheryl

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Offline majm

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Re: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 07 July 12 03:37 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

May I suggest you contact St Stephens C of E and explain that the copy of the NSW BDM registration for the marriage is written in longhand AND seems to be in the clergyman's hand only, and ask if their archivist would check further to see if the original registers are available.   It could be that one or both registers are already archived, but I know that the bride and the groom's signatures and those of the witnesses OUGHT to be available.    Once you have James signature from the 1917 document then you have something to compare to the draft cards and/or to any other document with his signature.  That should help eliminate or confirm some of the sightings.   St Stephens may have forwarded their registers to their archivists, BUT there were usually TWO registers used for C of E marriages.    It depends on which one the clergyman referred to when he was forwarding information to NSW BDM re the registration of the marriage.   One of the registers definitely will have the original signatures of the bride, the groom, and each of the two witnesses.  The registers are not ever meant to be deliberately destroyed.   

Alternatively, you may need so spend some pennies and actually order the 'real deal' certificate from NSWBDM, as the current way of presenting the information is different from the 1979 issued cert you have displayed here.    It could well be that the NSW BDM's registration is incomplete, or is only in the longhand from the clergy.   But I have (today) checked and compared several mcs that I originally obtained back in the late 1970s era.  I compared them with those certs that family members (not just me, but rellies of mine) have recently obtained (for the same people).   And, where back in the 1960s I was able to gain access to church registers to view the actual signatures, yet in the 1970s and 1980s NSW BDM were not including those signatures in their certs, BUT NSW BDM seem to now be including the signatures   ;D    

But in suggesting you spend pennies on replacing the cert with a current version,  it could well be that NSW BDM do not have a version with the actual signatures of the bride, groom, witnesses.   :'( 

Hope I am not confusing you, if so, please excuse my poor wordsmith skills.    


Cheers,  JM
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Offline clx

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Re: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 07 July 12 05:32 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

May I suggest you contact St Stephens C of E and explain that the copy of the NSW BDM registration for the marriage is written in longhand AND seems to be in the clergyman's hand only, and ask if their archivist would check further to see if the original registers are available.   It could be that one or both registers are already archived, but I know that the bride and the groom's signatures and those of the witnesses OUGHT to be available.    Once you have James signature from the 1917 document then you have something to compare to the draft cards and/or to any other document with his signature.  That should help eliminate or confirm some of the sightings.   St Stephens may have forwarded their registers to their archivists, BUT there were usually TWO registers used for C of E marriages.    It depends on which one the clergyman referred to when he was forwarding information to NSW BDM re the registration of the marriage.   One of the registers definitely will have the original signatures of the bride, the groom, and each of the two witnesses.  The registers are not ever meant to be deliberately destroyed.   

Alternatively, you may need so spend some pennies and actually order the 'real deal' certificate from NSWBDM, as the current way of presenting the information is different from the 1979 issued cert you have displayed here.    It could well be that the NSW BDM's registration is incomplete, or is only in the longhand from the clergy.   But I have (today) checked and compared several mcs that I originally obtained back in the late 1970s era.  I compared them with those certs that family members (not just me, but rellies of mine) have recently obtained (for the same people).   And, where back in the 1960s I was able to gain access to church registers to view the actual signatures, yet in the 1970s and 1980s NSW BDM were not including those signatures in their certs, BUT NSW BDM seem to now be including the signatures   ;D    

But in suggesting you spend pennies on replacing the cert with a current version,  it could well be that NSW BDM do not have a version with the actual signatures of the bride, groom, witnesses.   :'( 

Hope I am not confusing you, if so, please excuse my poor wordsmith skills.    


Cheers,  JM

Hi JM

yes - I commented to my mother when she showed me the MC that it was not signed by the bride and groom and the witnesses signatures were written in the same hand as the person who completed this form. Now there is an Officiating Minister H Smirnoff Begbie, A District Registrar E Rossiter who also initialed the amendment to James mothers name and then John Brettell Holliday certified the copy. I am unsure who would have been the person responsible for writing the record I have.  I will follow your suggestion and contact St Stephens C of E and see what they can assist with. Perhaps the original will reveal a bit more information. The signatures will definitely be useful as I have examined the ones on the Draft cards when considering if it may have been forged by a brother.

I really appreciate your sensitive words when noting the circumstances of my great grandparents death - it would have been an incredible tragic time.

Kind regards
Cheryl

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Re: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 19 September 13 00:52 BST (UK) »
Hi all
well over the last year or so I have continued my search and after creating a family tree of nearly 1500 people hoping to find a link or clue to someone else connected within my family, I still have not been able to find details for James Matthew Blunt.

We attempted to obtain my grandfathers original birth certificate but due to his adoption we can not obtain this for another 6 years (100 years after his birth). The executor of the will has to apply to DOCS and he is not willing to proceed with this. The will is still being processed. My grandfathers headstone should be installed within the next month and will include the names of his birth and adoptive parents. This has also been a drawn out process.

We have concluded that we were misguided in thinking his father was from Wales. We actually cannot be certain of where his father or mother came from. So the search for a Welsh John Thomas Blunt has been ceased although we are still open to all possibilities.

I am certain that the James Blunt from Wabash Indiana who had the draft cards is not the correct one. I was unable to obtain the original mc from St Stephens but at this stage do not need to compare the draft card signatures as I have ruled this one out. So the Blunt/Patton Family Tree I created is now closed.

I did find another James Blunt on the US census who was visiting a cousin and I created another family tree Burnett/Blunt Family Tree around this family but it ended up being the same one from Wabash as the census for each location had been taken three days apart. At least I was able to rule out that one too.

I found a family that matches in England with father John Thomas Blunt, mother Mary A and a son James born in 1880 in Salford Lancashire. I think the mothers maiden name could have been Atherton from other family trees. I found a James Blunt marrying in 1903 in Salford Lancashire. I found a born abt 1879 James who left Liverpool to Quebec to work in Toronto - July 1910 aboard the Empress of Britain. His occupation was brick setting. I have not been able to see a journey from here to Australia. Also nowhere does this James Blunt include the middle name of Matthew.

I have greatly researched Madolin's -(Dora) family who unfortunately fell apart following her father leaving an remarrying and moving back to England. Her mother vanished at this point and the daughters ended up in care. Little is known of her until she marries Gerard Collins. I have researched the Collins family also. I have also researched the families of both witnesses on the marriage certificate, the Ashtons and the Willcox's. All this research has not led to any obvious links with James Matthew Blunt prior to his marriage to Madolin.

We have researched many Blunts living in Australia during this time without success.

I have also created a database of J Blunts who traveled to all ports in Australia from 1880 to 1916 but without knowing much more they are all hypothetical. I can't be sure if he was here for 20 years before his death as the informant stated. I still haven't found any electoral roll, Sands Directory or naturalisation records for him.

What I have found is interesting is the fact that James included his middle name and also detailed names of his parents. This would suggest to me he wasn't attempting to hide the truth. He could have quite easily omitted his parents names and other details from the marriage certificate. I have also noted that the newspaper death notices do not mention any parents or family so I am assuming he was in Australia on his own at least by the time Madolin knew him.

I have visited the house in Petersham, now Dulwich Hill, where James lived and finally passed away to try and gain an insight into his life. It helped to make this invisible man seem a little more real.

So we continue our research hoping that new information may appear over time.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheryl

 

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Re: BLUNT James Matthew b Indiana d Newtown NSW Australia
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 23:13 GMT (UK) »
2013-2017 UPDATE
his is proving a real challenge!
So my research still continues with only teeny clues and clarifications since 2013. :'(
I now have a copy of James & Dora's original marriage certificate as the Sydney Anglican Church has digitised their records, very fortunate for me as these records were archived and not easy to obtain. It clearly states James parents as John Thomas Blunt and Mary Cunningham. I was uncertain from the BDM record if his mother was May or Mary so it is good to have a teeny new clarification. I also now have an original signature for James Matthew Blunt.

I have also obtained the adoption rights for my grandfather and now have his original birth certificate. Unfortunately although it states his parents as being James and Dora the only different information is a James age is stated as 34. It was stated as 36 the year earlier in his MC, the same as Dora. The BC states 36 for Dora. does not have any new information. It also has a name change of my grandfather as he was adopted. But this change is noted on the BC.
At least it shows some consistency between the three records I have, but suggests I need to keep a time frame for birth from 1879 to 1884 for James

I know for certain that the James Blunt from Wabash Indiana, who seemed to be the only possibility, died in 1949 and was buried in Hicks Cemetery Perrysville, Vermillion County, Indiana, United States of America and is buried there alongside his parents and brother John.

I have researched many Blunts living in Australia without success.

My database of J Blunts who traveled to all ports in Australia from 1880 to 1916 is still hypothetical without any real clues. I can't be sure if he was here for 20 years before his death as the informant stated on his DC. I still haven't found any electoral roll, Sands Directory or naturalisation records for him.

So we continue our research hoping that new information may appear over time, which it has but I really do not know where else to look.

Any other suggestions would of course be greatly appreciated.