Author Topic: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY  (Read 11629 times)

Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 15 July 12 03:03 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info on COFFEE Palace. Thought it may have been this...
The change to the BC of Muriel Victoria Aiken would probably have been done by my cousin who has visited Geelong & verified certificates.& registers. He was also at the time searching for the father of Edward Imlay Aiken (an interesting one..another thread) as Edward was supposedly born in Geelong. I would assume that this is correct (Muriel born 1895) even though my mother insists a mistake. When I find my copy which i hope I have still here in my huge file...will attach this.
Attaching BC of Mary Ann SMITH (Muriel ANNIE).
The familysearch.org got it wrong with Edward listing his birth year (when it was his marriage year). Edward had a son called Henry Edward (but he went to NZ & married Beatrice May McCook) luckily as didnt confuse things any more. With the name Imlay it is reasonably easy to find info on him (compared to SMITH!!!), though sometimes they got it wrong & typed in a J for an I..can see how they do it as they are similar with the scrawly writing.
For some reason I cant attach the BC of Mary Ann...keeps saying file too large > 500 so ? Will transcribe after lunch.
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

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Offline sparrett

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 15 July 12 03:05 BST (UK) »
An obituary in 1914 for jockey Thomas Charles Stanley says he used a name C. Stanley 1914

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/45272166?searchTerm="thomas charles stanley"&searchLimits=

 death notice EMMA 12/5/1918

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15782565?searchTerm="thomas charles stanley"&searchLimits=

Around the time of the birth you have  listed for Mary Ann  SMITH Emma Fieldhouse was donating money to the Prince Alfred Fund

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13168759?searchTerm="emma fieldhouse"&searchLimits=l-australian=y


Sue
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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 15 July 12 03:08 BST (UK) »
The information on those NSW Birth Certs from that era is usually written in the handwriting of the registrar's clerk recording it, often from verbal information provided over the counter (clerk notes whether the baby is 'present' or 'not present' at that visit to the registrar's office) apart from the informant's signature.   The NSW BDM registers were first indexed (by volunteers) in the 1930s.

There are a number of public trees at Ancestry with Edward Imlay AIKEN listed.  Most seem to be copies of each other, and they have the 1895 marriage as at Geelong.   ::) and the bride as Muriel Annie SMITH  ::) so I presume they haven't actually obtained a copy of that mc.   They also seem to have 1895 for birth of Muriel Annie's baby ! and at least ONE tree has the baby's christening details as Muriel Victoria Kate (Molly) AIKEN, Christ Church, Geelong, Victoria, Australia on 25 July 1895.  

Very very confusing

Cheers,  JM
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Offline c more

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 15 July 12 04:23 BST (UK) »
Hi
Have been following this tread.
Can I ask who was the informant on Muriel Annie AIKEN's death certificate in 1942?
Was  this the first time that her  maiden name was given as SMITH?
Was her maiden name always given as STANTLEY on all her childrens birth regos?
I would be checking  the death notices of all her supposed "SMITH brothers and sisters and extended family" to see if there is any reference to an AIKEN as sister or Aunty. Also one of  her "SMITH brothers and sister" marriage certificates may show her as a witness. 
Your mother was brought up by this lady so did she know of the "SMITH brothers and sisters and extended family"?
Did her grandmother refer to them as her sisters and brothers, nieces nephews?
From her photo she is a very striking woman, so photos of her "SMITH brothers and sisters" may show a family likeness.
Cheers Leonie
NATT: Kent & Australia
HOUGH: Derbyshire & Australia
SEYMOUR: Chelsea London & Australia
AISH: Dorset & Australia
WALTERS/WALTER: South Australia & Victoria


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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 15 July 12 05:39 BST (UK) »
My computer is frustrating me so much! Again I just lost an entire message!  :-[
Leonie, I don't have the death cert of Muriel Annie or any other cert's of her sisters. I think I will have to order one, probably Ruby's the youngest. As i mentioned before, the eldest daughter of William & Eliza SMITH was referred to as A) Mary A & b) Annie on the death certifcates of respectively, the mother's & the father's death cert's (informants were a) the brother Charles & b) the sister Edith. Muriel Annie was known by the women Mum knew to be her sisters, as ANNIE or MUR or by her husband (MEM)..Mary Elizabeth Muriel ??. Strange.
She lived as a SMITH, as if she was a SMITH, with SMITH girls as her sisters. Some of the SMITH sisters had children illegitimately & my mother knew these as aunts (eg Gertrude was actually Muriel's niece but my Mum thought she was an aunt. But then, Mum was born in 1924. She was 18 when her grandmother died. So Leonie, it is very confusing. Muriel Annie used an alias when she married & continued to use this alias for several years. MAJM has explained some very good reasons why she may have done this. However she does not look like the SMITHS. I've just found out that THOMAS COOPER who was Mary ANN SMITH's maternal grandfather was only short (5 foot). The SMITH women were small. Muriel Annie was quite a tall woman for her time. She looked youthful in her thirties (strange as I mentioned before if she had been brought up in a poor household); also according to my mother she had a lot of grace about her. Some things just don't add up.
 :D  :DThanks Sparett for the info on Charles Stanley..I've seen quite a few references to him where he's called Charles.
Re family likenesses...hmmm..I've checked out family photos of Mum's second cousin's children. There are some slight likenesses but these may be coincidental. There was a lot of tragedy in this family..2 of Muriel's children died in infancy. Her eldest daughter Muriel had 2 children (one accidentally hung himself aged 2, the other daughter Molly or Muriel, has spasticity & never had children (she looks I believe like Sophia, Edward's mother, not like Muriel at all), 2 boys died at Dunedoo drowned..Dudley & Frank, one son Louis Dutlinger (Bob) became mentally backward (became so traumatised by the deaths of his brothers..?? what i was told anyway), another daughter Ihlien Edith had spina bifida & had no children...MY GRAN WAS THE ONLY CHILD to reproduce children who had children..so this reduces the odds of finding familial similarities. AND..my mother looks more like her father's side. My MUm says that I have her grandmother's cheekbones but I think I look more like my father's grandmother who also had high cheekbones...aaaah

MAJM thanks for hanging in here. Thank you for that info on the clerks. This explains why probably the same writing as births were at a similar time, though I think that I checked on thsi once before, got a list of the clerks & they were different.

Re the public trees on Mundia (mine not there yet). Yes people tend to copy  paste. I've noticed that my Eliza Cooper is up there in some of these trees as marrying George YEATMAN (an EMMA Eliza Cooper married George Yeatman, not my Eliza). Did you check the johemath one...he is the tree that has about 25,000 names on it.  He may not have even accurately written in that she was married using an alias; there isn't much scope on the Mundia site to add in info like this.
It is all very confusing. People have assumed that because Muriel Annie knew & recognised the SMITHs as her family that she was MARY ANN SMITH. She celebrated the birthday of Mary Ann SMITH. At one stage I was so convinced that she was someone else that i asked my sister to do a astrological reading with the birth date of Mary Ann SMITH. She said that the reading corresponded to what she had been told by MUM.
MAJM details of MARY ANN SMITH as follows
date 24.11.1868
place phillip st parramatta
female
father William SMITH
labourer
age 22
father born brisbane, qld
mother eliza cooper
age 21
born parramatta
informants...mother eliza smith

witnesses
 1) blank a home birth??
 2) Mrs Howlet (spelt with one t not 2)...?eliza's grandmother Mary Howlett?
3) Mrs Cooper ?(eliza's mother Mary Cooper, or aunt)

Partic's of reg'n
Percy Simpson ? 5th January 1869, Parramatta

As she was born late in the year November, the birth wasnt registered until the next year...

McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 15 July 12 05:53 BST (UK) »
The registrar was E G Ward, as in Edward G Ward.  That's his usual signature that is hard to read on Elizabeth Mary STANLEY NSW birth cert of 1872. 

Sands 1869 Alpha Dir SYDNEY
Thomas STANLEY, 144 Bourke St  (one of the Stanley Brothers & McCabe, their hay and corn store was at 126 William St)

Sands 1871 Alph Dir SYDNEY
Thomas STANLEY, 8 Hill St, SURRY HILLS

Sands 1873 Alpha Dir SYDNEY
Charles STANLEY, horse trainer, Chelsea St REDFERN

Cheers,  JM
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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 15 July 12 06:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks MAJM. It's  a different registrar on the birth cert that I mentioned in a previous post, indecipherable also....jacques??? (Rosa Stanley born to Emma Stanley 14th August 1870 not present, Emma Stanley as informant & a Mrs Stanley as witness, address in the Uk given as ? London. The C on the town name before London...Clarkeswell is wriiten with the gusto as the C in the Charles Stanley....so you are most likely right..it would have been the clerk (registrar has different writing). The  handwriting of the name EMMA on right is almost identical.  I was an English teacher so recognise these things). I have scanned this birth cert but it's 900 or so k. How do I make it smaller so that I can attach it, any ideas?
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 15 July 12 07:00 BST (UK) »
You use your puter to "resize" it.  I think there's usually a very simple tool within the old "Paint" accessories.  Alternatively, take a SNIP with your snip tool and save as a jpeg.   ;D  (I learnt those tips at RChat !)  Don't forget to change the file name, and to "Save As" or you could end up overwriting your scan with a smaller image.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Send me a PM to seek my express permission to use any information I post. Wait for my reply, do not take for granted you have any authority to copy paste my words.
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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Offline mum mum

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 15 July 12 07:09 BST (UK) »
Either that, or rescan and save as a different size.
mum mum
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