Author Topic: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY  (Read 11652 times)

Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 14 July 12 11:08 BST (UK) »
Hello Mum mum
Sorry I missed your post. She was, by all accounts, a SMITH. My Mum lived with her & her husband (Edward Imlay Aiken) until they died (Edward in 1938 & Muriel Annie in 1943). My grandmother has died. Her name was Edna Iris Aiken. Muriel Annie was my g grandmother. She is the lady in this photgraph that has just been restored by rootschat member WIGGY. By all accounts she was a real lady.
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Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 14 July 12 11:14 BST (UK) »
May I propose a very very very speculative reason for an assumed name….. I have nothing to indicate that my speculation is fair….

1.   Edward is a commercial traveller, so it is likely he had spent time in Victoria selling his products, most likely hiring a side room at various hotels to set up a display (and shout the bar etc).   Perhaps it was Edward who knew the STANLEYS well enough to know the nee details for Mrs S.
2.   Perhaps Mary was of a similar age to Edward’s daughter who gave evidence AGAINST Edward at his divorce. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13900259 SMH 8 March, 1893
3.   Perhaps Edward was concerned and wanted a quicker and less public way out of any future marriage.
4.   Perhaps Edward suggested to Mary Ann that he was not yet fully free to lawfully marriage her (he was, but perhaps he suggested he was not), and thus if she really insisted on being married before the babe was delivered, that she would need to use an alias name.
5.   Perhaps Edward was quite familiar the names of Melbourne Cup winning jockeys and as Edward was a commercial traveller,  (errr  Company Director),  I am sure he could ‘spin’ charm whenever he needed and perhaps match up names of female hoteliers with Melbourne Cup jockeys…..

I am sure there are many other speculations to explain why a young spinster would go to Melbourne to marry a man nearly old enough to be her own father, and despite her being old enough to give consent herself, SHE used an alias name, presuming of course that YOUR Mary Ann was actually a) Muriel Annie and b) married as Elizabeth Mary Annie Muriel STANLEY. 

HAVE YOU COMPARED THE HANDWRITING for the bride on the mc, with ANY other handwriting by her around that time…. Did she register the births of her children?  (RChat has a board just for that help too)

That’s a grand restore by Wiggy. 

Cheers,  JM
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Offline mum mum

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 14 July 12 12:09 BST (UK) »
Hi
I still am not sure that I am convinced that Mary Ann was the daughter of William Smith, the only evidence is her death certificate and as we know they can easily be wrong. Then again I have seen marriage certificates with the wrong details as well.
Regarding Edward and Mary Ann's marriage, if Edward was in fact divorced, perhaps Mary Ann was not free to Mary under her real name.
Nothing looks certain yet.
mum mum
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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 14 July 12 13:48 BST (UK) »
Mum Mum
It's possible also that Mary Ann (Smith) aka Muriel Annie may have been married to someone else & this may be why she kept up the charade of being Elizabeth Mary Stanley for so long. Why did she name a child after Mr Stanley??? Why go this far?
As I mentioned previously she socialised with the SMITH sisters & was close to them & took on the identity of the oldest sister but she may not have been this person. She wasn't the Elizabeth Mary Stanley.

JM I checked the signatures & the postcards definitely match the writing/signatures of both bride & groom. Same people.
Deb
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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 July 12 17:51 BST (UK) »

The eldest child was Muriel Victoria AIKEN, born 23 June 1895, Geelong, VIC. (ie several days after they married). VIC BDM 11853/1895 On this birth entry, they stated that thbey were married in 1894, when they actually married in 1895.
My mother was brought up by her grandparents & finds it hard to believe that her grandmother may have been (was by all accounts) pregnant when she married. 


She is registered as being born in 1896  ???

I think you might have to check that birth certificate again  :-\

Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 15 July 12 01:04 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Well spotted Merlin !  My index has this as 1896 and as:  Muriel Vic AIKEN, dau of Edwd Finlay AIKEN and Elizth Mary Anni STANLEY.  The ref # 11853.    I can also see a NSW birth INDEXED in that same year …..
1896, Stanley C C AIKEN, son of Edward J and Elizabeth MHM AIKEN registered at Leichhardt  #31673.   I wonder if there were two chaps Edward AIKEN, one in Vic and one in NSW both having children in 1896 ? 

Re the  June 1895 marriage AIKEN=STANLEY, at Bourke St, Melbourne.
Edward Imlay AIKEN’s address was Federal Coffee Palace, Melbourne VICTORIA.   
Elizabeth’s parents are recorded as Charles STANLEY (Publican) and Emma FIELDHOUSE.   
Elizabeth’s age is given as 23 years, and her place of birth as Sydney NSW.

I note that the NSW BDM online index does have a STANLEY=FIELDHOUSE marriage registered Sydney in 1871 BUT the groom is recorded as Thomas Charles.   (#980) .  That couple did have a daughter born 1872 and registered as Elizabeth (online index has Elizabeth M #1443) and there were further children born to that couple, all seem to have their father’s given names as Thomas C or Thomas Charles and NONE just as Charles, so I am not sure why you are linking the lass married in Victoria in 1895 to that couple married in 1871 in NSW.   

Do you have any birth certs for children of Thomas & Emma FIELDHOUSE?   I am thinking that perhaps Rubina G STANLEY’s bc for 1887 registered Campbelltown NSW (#17270), could well list  some details of that baby’s older siblings and their ages  and any that had not survived at that time, AND the occupation for that Thomas C STANLEY. 

Re Stanley = Fieldhouse, I suspect that there would be a connection back to the Publican of The Jolly Miller at Campbelltown NSW who was a George FIELDHOUSE.   George & Mary Fieldhouse children include Emma Fieldhouse born 21 Oct 1846, baptised at St Peter’s (Campbelltown) 6 December 1846.    Most likely George FIELDHOUSE married Mary PETERS at Campbelltown by Rev Thomas REDDALL in 1832. 

Here’s some links to help you follow my thoughts:

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
https://www.familysearch.org/

Re the Mary A SMITH birth cert for 1868 (ie making her about four years older than the lass listed on the 1895 marriage cert from Victoria for AIKEN= STANLEY)  perhaps you have answered this question on the other threads, but may I ask here:
From the certificate or official transcript only, what is recorded against each of these headings please?

Date and place of birth of child
Name/s and whether present or not
Sex
Father’s name, occupation, age and birthplace
Date and place of marriage, previous issue
Mother’s name and maiden surname, age and birth place
Informant, (name, relationship, address)
Witness (1)   (2)   (3)
Registrar recording the entry, date registered, place registered
Name if added after registration of birth

If you have the 1872 birth cert/official transcript for Elizabeth M STANLEY, what is recorded against each of those same headings please.

Cheers,  JM
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Offline sparrett

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 15 July 12 01:56 BST (UK) »
Re the  June 1895 marriage AIKEN=STANLEY, at Bourke St, Melbourne.
Edward Imlay AIKEN’s address was Federal Coffee Palace, Melbourne VICTORIA.   
Elizabeth’s parents are recorded as Charles STANLEY (Publican) and Emma FIELDHOUSE.   
Elizabeth’s age is given as 23 years, and her place of birth as Sydney NSW.
  JM

In the OP

When she was married to Edward Imlay AIKEN on 17th June 1895, in Geelong (VIC BDM 3390/1895)on the marriage certificate it states Elizabeth Mary Annie Muriel STANLEY, lists father as Thomas Charles STANLEY (publican) ……


Sue
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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 15 July 12 02:17 BST (UK) »
Well, to add to the confusion  ::)  there was definitely SEVERAL chaps named Edward AIKEN in Sydney in the 1890s and into the 1900s.


Sands 1895 Alpha Directory Sydney
E J AIKEN, 155 Annandale Road, ANNANDALE.
E J AIKEN,  Secretary Dairy Farmers’ Export Association, 173 Sussex St (Sydney CBD)
E J AIKEN, Manager Berrima District Cold Climate Farm and Dairy Co, Limited, Harris St (Ultimo/Pyrmont)

I mention this because Stanley CC AIKEN’s 1896 NSW birth is registered at NSW BDM’s Leichardt district AND the index has Edward J and not Edward I for the father’s given names.   

There’s also the lass, Linda V AIKEN’s  1898 birth cert to consider, and her parents were recorded on the Index as Edward I and Annie M, registered  Annandale NSW (#28263 on ONE of the indexes)  What information was given on that bc as to that lass’ parentage, marriage, address, occupation etc.   I suspect there has been recent endorsements at NSW BDM on that cert, and a new entry made ( ONLINE reference #180130/2005 versus 28263/1898) 

Iforani,  may I please ask what certs (or official transcriptions) you hold for this family of yours?   

Cheers,  JM
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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 15 July 12 02:48 BST (UK) »
:D
Thanks Merlin & JM
Just read your last post JM while typing this one. I have very few birth certs at this stage. My cousin  has more, am not sure which ones he has. I can contact him but he travels a lot. He has gone around Australia & NZ meeting relatives & travelling to places where family lived. Those names that you gave are all Edward..he had various occupations & travelled a lot with his jobs (I suspected at one stage that he had more than one wife at that time,,, He went bankrupt in 1892 & 1898 (twice) so he had to keep working wherever he could. Would be good to check on that Leichhardt one though I'm sure that this was him. Will check with my cousin. The only certs I have are nsw marriage reg of SMITH & COOPER, NSW marriage transcript of COOPER & WALKER,death of ELIZA SMITH nee COOPER (NOTE Mary A listed as MARY A..not Muriel ANNIE...informant was brother CW SMITH), DEATH of WILLIAM SMITH28.11.1912 (eldest daughter MARY A listed as "ANNIE"..aged 44 correct..informant was her younger sister EDITH )..the only other ones I have are birth cert's that I have when trying to discover my grandmother Edna Iris Aiken's birth year as no B cert for her which is strange..won't confuse in this thread yet. I had the theory that my grandmother may have been the daughter of one of Muriel's SMITH sisters (they had quite a  few children out of wedlock). Even though Edward had gone bankrupt they appear from all accounts to have been better off than the sisters.

continuing on..
Firstly...I have a Muriel Victoria AIKEN, birth 23 June 1895 in Geelong VIC (VIC BDM 11853/1895). I have a birth Stanley CC Aiken, born 1896 in eLeichhardt NSW NSW BDM 316/1896. I have sighted the Birth registration, not the birth cert of Muriel Victoria (aka Molly) & it did state 1895. I will have to dig this out. Last year my computer crashed & some of the info I had saved/scanned was lost; luckily managed to retrieve most of it. Family has Muriel Victoria's birth recorded as 1895 also. Re the Leichhardt address given with Stanley CC (remembered by Mum as Jack so ?). This was given to me by a cousin, a family researcher & I assumed it was correct. I've noticed that the entries are not always correct for Edward (no doubt he didn't make the entries as he was a very literate man...wrote numerous letters to the editor in Sydney on various issues). Have seen references as Edward J (this one which I assume is an error) also Edward Imley Aiken..typo error.
I could check the elctoral roll for Edward Imlay Aiken in 1896 for Leichhardt. I think that I have done this before though.
I am quite certain that the alias used by Muriel Annie (Mary Ann) of Elizabeth Mary Stanley is the same one in Campbelltown (same parents, same age (1872), the Stanleys & the Fieldhouses both ran pubs in Campbelltown (have checked this) but a salient point..thanks. Also Thomas Charles Stanley did go by the name Charles eg transcript below of some of details of Elizabeth mary's birth cert. Father listed as CHARLES STANLEY. Not Thomas. He was also known in racing fraternity as Charles STANLEY moreso than Thomas (have checked google references to him) so more commonly known as Charles. No I don't have any other birth certificates of the Stanleys but my sister does have a copy of Elizabeth Mary's. Will attach this if I can. Is only a copy of her email which is hard to decipher. My other sister enlarged it & she thought that there was no issue at that stage (Muriel first born). If you can read it, can you please give me your expert opinion MAJM about who would have written the name EMMA FIELDHOUSE at the right. My reason for asking this is as follows..When I ordered the birth certifiicate of the ROSA STANLEY born to Emma Stanley the writing is almost identical to that on the right (ie the writing of Emma Fieldhouse).

Born        20/6/1872 Surrey Hills
Name      Elizabeth Mary Stanley (not present)
Father     Thomas Charles Stanley  jockey age 24 born Parramatta
Married   August 1871 Parramatta
Mother    Emma Fieldhouse age 23 born Campbelltown
Informant father Charles Stanley
signed    17/7/1872  registered 18/7/1872   
1872/001443
no siblings listed

 ???Can't read the names of the witnesses but probably Dr. ? & Mrs Woodbridge?
I will also attach the birth certificate of Mary Ann SMITH. Yes i have given this info before but hard to remember it all i understand.

Am interested to hear back from you especially about my query re the Emma Fieldhouse writing.
Just tried to send this with 2 attachments so will send docs separately.
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