Joseph Dyson Lister the Independent Zionist, census lookup

[trystan]

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Dear All

You have done so staggeringly well, helping me with the mysterious Avica that I feel compelled to put my other big mystery family into your hands for help and advice.

Joseph Dyson Lister was born in 1815 and baptised in 1822 as an independent zionist in Wakefield, Yorkshire, the son of Richard Lister and Betty.

I have found JDL in the 1881 census. He was living at 90 Grafton Street in Bradford, Yorks with daughter and 2 grand-daughters. RG11/4461/16/24

He is described as married but his wife is not there.

I would like to know whether JDL was in Grafton Street in 1871, 1861 or 1851 and wonder if anyone has access to any of these returns please.

Thanks very much

Louise

PS Background notes to follow - I can't fit it all in one post

[Valda]

Hi

For ease of reading these are the posts contained in the attachment Re Joseph Dyson Lister the Independent Zionist


23 August 05

Dear All You have done so staggeringly well, helping me with the mysterious Avica that I feel compelled to put my other big mystery family into your hands for help and advice.
Joseph Dyson Lister was born in 1815 and baptised in 1822 as an independent zionist in Wakefield, Yorkshire, the son of Richard Lister and Betty.
I have found JDL in the 1881 census. He was living at 90 Grafton Street in Bradford, Yorks with daughter and 2 grand-daughters. RG11/4461/16/24
He is described as married but his wife is not there.
I would like to know whether JDL was in Grafton Street in 1871, 1861 or 1851 and wonder if anyone has access to any of these returns please.

Thanks very much
Louise
PS Background notes to follow - I can't fit it all in one post

[Valda]

23 August 05                  

BACKGROUND NOTES
Some of this story appears in the thread "The Wilson family of Scarborough".
JDL is the father of Eliza Lister. My earliest record of her is when she married Thomas Vipond in 1872.They had a daughter, Ellen Vipond in 1873. Eliza then had a son, Walter Doughty Vipond born in 1879 3rd qrt in Bradford and died in 1882 1st qrt in Bradford. (The father's name is blank on the birth certificate. I assume Thomas Vipond had died because she is described as Eliza Vipond, a widow at the time of her second marriage. I don’t know whether Thomas Vipond was Walter's father.) Eliza, Ellen and Walter are to be found on the 1881 census at 26 Bank, Eccleshill, Bradford with Samuel Benn (the enumerator has written Been) and her third child, John W Vipond. RG11/4477/19/32Samuel and Eliza were not married and interestingly Samuel is described on the census as "Master" rather than "Head" of the house. You won’t see this on the IGI because they have decided the household is two separate ones. John W Vipond was just a baby and registered a week later, born Feb. I ordered and received a copy of his birth certificate in the 1980s but it was a transcription of the entry and not a photocopy. It is written as "John William Benn " but I am sure the original will have said Wilson. On his birth certificate his mother has given her name as Eliza Benn nee Lister but I am afraid that was a bit of a fantasy on her part as they were never married. Some time soon after the 1881 census baby John W Benn left the family home. It may have happened at the same time as the death of his older brother Walter in 1882 1st qrt in Bradford. In 1884, Eliza married John Long a furniture carrier and haulier, at Bolton Parish Church, Bradford, Yorks on Nov 9th 1884, aged now 30, they are both described as widowed. Eliza's father is given as Joseph Dyson Lister, I think deceased from memory. (Samuel Benn must have either died or fallen out of favour. I have not been able to discover what happened to him although there is an 1891 census in Windhill, Shipley that just might have been him, living just yards from Eliza's grocer shop. I shall want to find him though because he is my GGGGrandfather.) Eliza and John Long then had a son named Joseph who appears with them on the 1891 census at 9 Seal Street Bradford, along with Ellen Vipond who at 18 is a hat-maker however ten year old John Wilson Benn has now disappeared. I turned up in local Bradford Directories, mention of Eliza Long running a grocers shop for many years on Hall Lane in Windhill and have even had old photographs sent to me of the shop. Researchers think her son Joe took the shop over and was certainly there in the 1930s. I don’t know what happened to her after that. I don’t know if she ever saw baby John Wilson Benn again. John Wilson Benn would never talk about it he described himself as a foundling when asked. John W Benn does not appear again on any census that I have been able to find, however, by 1903 he was living in Scarborough as a soldier where he married Daisy Kate Hilton, they are my great-grandparents. John gives his father as Samuel Benn, weaving overlocker, deceased. I don’t really need to know any more about John Wilson Benn but do want to discover where he was in 1891 and 1901 on the census (the latter in the army somewhere presumably) and to find out who it was that took him in. I can tell you that he and Daisy Kate went off soldiering after they got married and had several children in various exotic places round the world, Africa, Singapore, Dublin and even Aldershot! .I do however want to get to the bottom of Eliza Lister. When did she die? When was she born? Who was her mother? What happened to her?  I have not been able to find Eliza's birth anywhere, nor a christening for her. Her age fluctuates, she was married in 1872, six months pregnant and claiming to be 21 but I think she may have been more like 16. On subsequent censuses and events her age is inconsistent so I don’t know for sure when she was born but it was between 1850 and 1856, all records say she was born in Bradford. However, if her father was born in Wakefield then it is possible she was born there too but moved so young that they didn’t subsequently recall. It is also possible that she too was a Independent Zionist so her baptism might not have been picked up on the IGI, but I have to say she married twice in a church of England church. My hope is that by finding JDL in earlier census returns I might find his wife who I don’t currently know or Eliza with him. I really want to start pushing backwards into time, having spent about twenty years piecing together the vagaries thus far. So, if you can help with any census lookups for Joseph Dyson Lister I will be delighted

Regards and best wishes
Louise


23 August 05         
1871 census RG10 4468 folio 4040 (not sure of street name I'll go back and look again) Horton Yorkshire,
Joseph D Lister 56, Wakefield, Yorkshire, Head Married Wool warp dealer
Elizabeth Lister 59 Scotland Wife Married
William Lister 21 Bradford, Yorkshire, Son Wool sorter
Alcae Lister 19 Bradford, Yorkshire Daughter Worsted weaver
Eliza Lister 15 Bradford Yorkshire Daughter
Mary Lister 10 Bingley, Yorkshire, Daughter

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

23 August 05

Still don't think I've cracked the name of the street it looks like Edmbro but I can't see how that is right - anyway in the process of going to other pages to try and decipher the writing I noticed at the top of the page in front at 32 in this street, same folio number
David Lister 25 Timble Great Head Married Wholesale grocer
Margaret C Lister 25 Palnackie? Wife Married
Matilda F Lister 17 Timble Great Sister
Alice D C Lister 2 mth Bradford, Yorkshire, Daughter

 However I think they are a red herring as they are back in Great Timble with different parents in 1861, so I've only included them in case someone else spots them.
1861 census RG9 3219 folio 134
New Houses Bingley Yorkshire Joseph Dyson Lister 47 Bradford, Yorkshire, Head Married Wool sorter
Elizabeth Lister 49 Scotland Wife Married
Kezia Lister 17 Bradford, Scotland Daughter Worsted weaver
Henery Lister 16 Bradford, Scotland Son   Worsted mechanic
William Lister 11 Bradford, Scotland Son
Alice Lister 9 Bradford, Scotland Daughter
Eliza Lister 5 Bradford, Scotland Daughter

which solves Alcae of 1871

Regards
Valda


23 August 05

This may be Elizabeth's death
LISTER, Elizabeth Record Type  Deaths Age at death  63 Quarter  June Year  1874 District  Bradford County  West Riding of Yorkshire Volume  9b Page  161
I can't find her in 1881 or 1891, though of course she could be in Scotland in 1881. I presume their marriage may be in Scotland? By the look of the censuses Eliza just made 16 (if that) at the time of her marriage. As a girl it was legal for her to marry from the age of 12 onwards, but under 21, if she admitted it she would need parental consent.

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

23 August 05 1739

The Samuel Benn in Horton, a plumber with a large family in 1871, is not yours though he is the right age. He and his family are still together in 1881.Despite the age difference this Samuel has the right place of birth but he has initially the wrong occupation
1871 RG10 4428 folio 40 Northowram Yorkshire
Sam Benn 35 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head Married Stone miner
Ruth Benn 35 Clayton, Yorkshire, Wife Married Worsted Weaver
Sharp Benn 11 Northowram, Yorkshire, Son Bobbin carrier
William Benn 5 Northowram, Yorkshire, Son
next door
John Green Head Widower 70 Farmer of 8 acres and worsted weaver Northowram Yorkshire
He also has the added advantage of being missing from the 1881 census
RG12 4425 folio 74Hill Top, Shelf, Yorkshire
Ruth Benn 43 Northowram, Yorkshire, Head Widow mill hand
William Benn 17 Northowram, Yorkshire,Son Mill hand
Grace Benn 7 Northowram, Yorkshire, Daughter
John Green 80 Northowram, Yorkshire, Father Widower retired farmer

Well she would say she was a widow! But I can't find a death registration for Samuel on FreeBMD in Northowram district or in Yorkshire but you will need to check this.
1861 census RG9 3310 folio 15 North Bierley Yorkshire
Samuel Benn 25 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head Married Worsted weaver
Elizabeth Benn 29 Horton, Yorkshire, Wife Married Worsted weaver
Ruth Benn 6 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter Margaret Benn 4 Horton, Yorkshire, Daughter
Ann Benn 2 Horton, Yorkshire, Daughter

Right occupation and this ties him into the 1891 census through Brierley
RG12 3653 folio 7320 Lane Bottom Idle Yorkshire
Benn, Samuel  50 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Lodger Married Cloth weaver

This Samuel not having appeared on previous censuses.

Regards
Valda   


23 August 05

I can't see Samuel on the 1901 census this may or may not (there were other Samuels in the area) be his death registration
Benn, Samuel  Record Type  Deaths Age at death  53 Quarter  September Year  1891 District  Bradford County  West Riding of Yorkshire Volume  9b Page  134

Regards
Valda
         

23 August 05
 
And to finish Ruth on the censuses
1891 census RG12 3607 folio 46 Northowram Yorkshire 
Benn, Ruth 53 Northowram, Yorkshire, Head Widow Housekeeper crossed through
Benn, Grace 17 Northowram, Yorkshire, Daughter Plush Piece mender

1901 census RG13 4142 folio 79 Ford Hill Farm Queensbury Yorkshire
Ruth Benn 66 Queensbury, Yorkshire, Head Widow
William Benn 36 Northowram, Yorkshire, Son Married Iron furness
Lewin Benn 11 Halifax, Yorkshire, Grandson
Harold Benn 8 Halifax, Yorkshire, Grandson

Regards
Valda


23 August 05

Young men like John Benn are notoriously difficult to find on censuses. My advice would be to access his army record at The National Archives at Kew first which would give details of when he attested (he could have attested well under age, the army was a great one for the finer details, such as volunteers ages) and his army record will tell you where he was on probably at least the 1901 census.

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

24 August 05
 
Valda, Once again I am amazed and thrilled with the work you have done and the family you have found. Thank you so very much. Before I go onto to look at what you have found, I must ask you where you go for all this information. Do you have CDs? Are you a member of a fee paying website? How do you get to see all the censuses just like that? I wish you would let me into your secret. I feel like I started my family tree twenty years too soon. I have been scraping round in libraries and archives for years trying to find things. I have sat in Bradford reference library many times slowly winding a micofilm of a Bradford census with one hand and searching an index of surnames with the other. There were hundreds and hundreds of Lister entries each year (a family name which was very thick on the ground there, the big park in Bradford is Lister Park, although I am sure unrelated). I never found what I wanted alas. And you get dispirited after a while. But you come along in an afternoon with your wonderful technology and have made massive inroads. I feel like I must have a piece of that! So let me see where I am and where I need to go now. First of all Eliza has lots more brothers and sisters I never knew about, extra to Elizabeth born circa 1840 who is not on earlier censuses having presumably left home but has come back to dear old dad with yet more illegitimate children by 1881. I note the census for 1861 says the children were born in Bradford, Scotland. I presume we think the enumerator had been on the sherry and meant to say Yorkshire? I also note that they lived at New Houses, Bingley, I was only there in early May. I always have a feel for my Listers and Benns when I am in that part of West Yorkshire and recall telling my companion on the visit (which was unrelated to genealogy) that I had ancestors from there. I was probably standing outside (one of) their homes at the time without realising it. Spooky. So my first task is to look for a marriage between JDL and Elizabeth in Scotland or Bradford or Wakefield around 1840 in time for baby Elizabeth's birth. However, if I get a birth certificate for Elizabeth, or the more interestingly named and less likely to be muddled up with anyone else, Kezia, first I can find out what her mother's maiden name was and make it a bit easier for myself. I think it likely Elizabeth snr did died early otherwise baby John Wilson Benn might have found a home with her. She would have been born circa 1812 so your death entry in 1874 aged 63 looks pretty good. I think Alice Lister, Eliza's sister, is her witness at her marriage to John Long in 1884.1871 could be Edinbro Street perhaps? I will get onto the birth certificate and search for the marriage straight away. Next we come to Samuel Benn. As I understand your findings he is either the runaway husband of Ruth Benn (and their children) (although five years too old cf 1881) or he is the husband of Elizabeth Benn (and their children) (and again five years too old cf 1881) who he might also have run away from, or who might have died. I also picked up Samuel Benn the lodger in 1891, having been to the area and scouted around I can tell you that Lane Bottom is only yards from where Eliza kept her shop in Hall Lane, Windhill. I am sure in my bones that this is him, now all on his own. The mention of North Bierley in 1891 as place of birth and as the homestead in 1871 makes the second Samuel marginally more likely I think. I would be uncomfortable for a start with Samuel and Eliza having a baby called John if John was the name of his wife's father that he had recently run away from. I think he would have wanted her to choose a different name. I find Samuel rather messy and don’t feel sure where to go with him. I wrote to Halifax superintendent registrar twenty years ago looking for a Samuel Benn born Shelf circa 1841 but they didn’t have one, I think they managed 1837 in Holywell which wasn't quite the same thing. North Bierley though would be Bradford Superintendent Registrar. The two places are in roughly the same area but you wouldn’t muddle them up - unless someone else recorded Samuel's entries on his behalf on occasion? I am pretty sure he would have been another methodist/zionist/prims/chapel baptism, they were the norm on the Yorkshire "tops". What's your take Valda? Given the paltry amount of information available on my Samuel, who would you plump for? Or what more would you do to find him? Incidentally I would imagine the two alternatives are related to each other in any case, wouldn't you? Re John Wilson Benn, as you know I am due at Kew on September 20th to look at the records of Charles Hilton his father-in-law, so I might be able to look at his at the same time. He was in the 7th fusiliers when he got married but moved around and joined other regiments over time, including the Singapore volunteers. I would welcome advice on how one goes about finding the first regiment he joined, or would one search on the last? Which would I need to find his attestation papers? My head is still reeling at having Scottish ancestors. Up to now I have had 15 out of 16 great great grandparents as English with one Irish. But when I go to 32s I shall find a bit more of a spread. Thanks again, I will let you know when I have birth certificates and wedding certificates etc.

Regards
Louise

[Valda]

24 August 05
 
Hi Louise, I think I'll have to post one of my own brickwalls and hope that I can inveigle Valda on to my case! What fantastic work. You have such great brickwalls - first a Mysterious Avica and now Joseph The Independent Zionist! I'm going to have to Google about Independent Zionism - were the Bradford LISTERs big in this movement and why? You are not the first to think you started your family history research too soon - sounds like a topic for The Lighter Side. What a change it is sitting in comfort at home in front of the computer when and if one chooses - compared with booking times and being squashed up in some horrid little dark room full of people coughing their germs onto one while one wound through a film reader which jumped in and out of focus (I always picked the worst one in the room!). Better not go on ...The street looks like Edinbro to me but I couldn't find an Edinburgh, Edinbro or Edinboro St in Bradford on multimap or streetmap ... And I guess that the enumerator hadn't really been on the happy juice in 1861 (his writing is quite neat and almost elegant) - just a bit careless with how he entered his "Do" i.e. dittos for the family. No doubt you've now seen on FreeBMD  Kezia LISTER, Jun qtr 1843, Vol 23, page 203, in Bradford YR. And perhaps this Kezia's marriage in 1866, Vol 9b, page 25 in Bradford Yk (males on the page are William HOLDSWORTH and Ashton TEMPEST). I'll read the next instalment with interest. JAPPS To save Valda a lookup, it seems that it was the wonderfully named Mr TEMPEST (also a worsted weaver) who married the Kezia of the marriage record - and isn't Kezia TEMPEST a great name. They are together in 1871 with daughter Sarah A, aged 3 Kezia a widow in 1881 in Lincolnshire with daughters Sarah A 13 and Clara 3 (Ashton presumably the one who died in 1880 aged 45 in Bradford).


Wednesday 24 August 05

Well Valda, you did suggest that I have a look at Louise's exciting new mystery! Is this Ruth BENN, daughter of Samuel and Ruth (that should say Elizabeth) and aged 6 in 1861, in 1871.North Bierley and all born there
BENN Abram, Head, 63, Coal Miner Do
Ruth, Wife, 62 Do
Joshua, Son, unm, 29, Dyer Wool Do
Ellen, Daur, unm, 29(?), Weaver Worsted Do
Ruth, Granddaughter, unm, 16, Spinner Worsted

From the IGI (no mention of Shelf) Samuel BENN, bap 20 Apr 1835, Bradford, parents Abraham BENN and Ruth. And to the same parents in Bradford Hannah BENN bap 7 Oct 1833 and (both baptized on the same day as Samuel)
Benjamin BENN bap 20 Apr 1835
John BENN bap 20 Apr 1835

And a marriage
Abraham BENN m Ruth BASTOW, 14 Aug 1826 in Bradford.

Cheers,
JAPPS

There's a possibility for Benjamin of the above family (transcribed as Benjamen) BENN, a Worsted Weaver, at Revy Hall, North Bierley, in 1871 - age 34 and born Shelf


24 August 05

I'm going to have to Google about Independent Zionism - were the Bradford LISTERs big in this movement and why?
Hi JAP, welcome to my new puzzle, now rapidly being sorted out, glad you could join us! Thanks for your contributions which I cannot go through just now, I am meant to be working, but here are two tiny points for you. First of all I did try to pick another interesting title for my thread, having learnt from you how much it helps to attract the eye. Unfortunately I made a very small error, JDL was an Independent Zionist, I missed that little word out before in error. I thought you would be mildly amused to learn that you could study the History of Nonconformity at Bradford University had you but space and time (and residency). I attach the link for your interest. can see another few busy evenings coming up for me. I have sent off my £7 for Kezia's certificate already, I am so keen

Regards
Louise

[Valda]

24 August 05

Louise I will need to send this message in two parts as it exceeds the size allowed.PM me if you want me to talk about sources - fee paying or otherwise. I left in the Bradford Scotland bit because technically the transcriber was correct. You get a group of people born Bradford Yorkshire, with the enumerator dittoing Yorkshire, then you get Elizabeth born Scotland and then he continues underneath writing Bardford but dittoing Elizabeth's Scotland - he doesn't write Scotland. If the JDL marriage was in Scotland then it was pre Scottish civil registration (1856) Edinbro works for me. Not sure about elder sister Elizabeth and illegitimate children. She's obviously before my time - the 1861 census, and after I stopped looking at Dyson 1871, because I figured you had the last census Joseph was on. If she and her flock are an issue, then we will need to know more about her to look for her. OK the 1861 census inconsistency you've spotted Louise, has highlighted for me 'the deliberate mistake' (I wish), see JAP I told you you needed to run a careful eye through this - there were a lot of different censuses to tie through all of this and I was obviously getting tired by the time I got to that last 1861 census, which i just copied and sent. If I had looked at it more carefully I would have started all over again, but I just looked at Samuel and Bierley and his date of birth and thought this ties in well and just sent it. I would probably have been to tired by then to start again anyway. So basically the 1861 census doesn't match with the other censuses. It is a different Samuel who has not appeared on any census before. The age date for the Samuel who married Ruth (see below his actual 1861 census return) gives me even more trouble. He is even older and he has still got the wrong occupation. So now the only thing this Samuel has got going for him is he missing after the 1871 census, which as his wife Ruth said on the following censuses could very well be because he had died.
RG9 3302 folio 94 Green Head Northowram Yorkshire Samuel Benn 31 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head Married Coal miner Ruth Benn 22 Clayton, Yorkshire, Wife Married Cotton and worsted weaver Sharp Benn 2 Northowram, Yorkshire, Son
Pity because I really liked the name Sharp Benn. So let’s start again with all the potential candidates from 1861 minus Samuel and Ruth above, since you've got all the information on them. The known and correct Samuel of the 1881 census gives Shelf as his birthplace, a birth circa 1840 and an occupation as a weaver. So the remaining Samuel Benn (no Beens) candidates in Yorkshire, within a 10 year age possibility from 1861 are
1. Samuel Benn abt 1840 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Head Bradford, a plumber, glazier &amp gas fitter, married to Maria aged 18 born Bradford, 1 child Not really a candidate, other than changing his birthplace to Horton he is identical on all censuses (plus growing family 1861-1881
2. Samuel Benn abt 1837 Morley, Yorkshire, England Head Holbeck, Wollen mill worker, wife Hagar aged 21 born Holbeck, 1 child. Not a candidate. Missing 1871 census but in 1881 still with wife, with distinctive name in Holbeck.
3. Samuel Benn abt 1843 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Lodger Huddersfield, unmarried lodger, hawker. Not a candidate married and in Spotland Lancashire 1871 and 1881
4. Samuel Benn abt 1843 Hunslet, Yorkshire, England Son Leeds, unmarried with family, cloth dresser. In 1871 born Leeds in Leeds still with family and unmarried. occupation musician. Missing 1881 but on occupation alone seems exceedingly unlikely candidate.
5. Samuel Benn abt 1836 Shelf, Yorkshire, England Head North Bierley, Worsted weaver, married to Elizabeth aged 29 born Horton, 3 children Ruth 1855 N. Brierley, Margaret 1857 Horton, Ann 1859 Horton. Missing 1871 census (can find no death registrations FreeBMD - Bradford registration district) daughter Ruth looks to be with her Benn grandparents in North Brierley. No sign of Margaret and Ann (see later 1871 census reference on this) or her parents.
6. Samuel Benn abt 1831 Wibsey, Yorkshire, England Head Farnley Yorkshire, coalminer, married to mary aged 28 born Wibsey, 3 children. Samuel and family missing after 1861 but not a likely candidate, too old and wrong job.  Just to irritate me I think he turns up again on the 1891 census, having been missing for 20 years The places obviously mean something to you Louise, they don't mean much to me and that makes this a lot harder for me. Two extra candidates on the 1871 census who don't appear to appear on the 1861 census
7. Samuel Benn abt 1844 Wiseford, Ireland Head Brightside Bierlow , blacksmith's striker, wife Eliza aged 26 born Ireland, 3 children. Not a candidate in Sheffield  1881, now a labourer and more children but the essentials are the same
8. Samuel Benn abt 1831 North Bierley, Yorkshire, England Head North Bierley , a singer? at dyehouse (wool has been added) wife Susannah aged 35 born North Brierley, 2 children. Not a candidate still with same wife and doing something to do with singer still, but in Bowling on the 1881 census

Regards
Valda   

[Valda]

24 August 05

My Phillimore's Atlas and index of parishes does not acknowledge Shelf as a parish, so up to 1848 (it might be a parish in its own right after that), does it come under Northowram or Bradford? Northowram has no coverage on the IGI. I can't see North Bierley either. JAP has given you almost certainly the baptism from the IGI of the second and only other Samuel candidate - parents Abraham and Ruth (the grandparents with Ruth, the granddaughter in 1871) who was born Shelf. Would someone born Shelf be baptised in Bradford? If their family then moved by 1840 to North Bierley would the baptisms move from Bradford (IGI coverage up to 1845) to Northowram? Given that I've now covered all the Samuel  Benns, I think as comprehensively as I can, (and should have done in the first place - it never does to rush things, and I knew I was playing with a lot of variables in places I didn't have geographical knowledge of, so I should have slowed down - but this exercise of taking all candidates and eliminating them is time consuming and you don't need to be tired when trying it and you do need pieces of paper to scribble on and cross things off from). You have two potential Samuel Benn candidates. The first seems less likely by the minute, but it would help to eliminate him completely by killing him off before 1881. so it would help if you could do that. The second Samuel candidate you need to work through the relevant parish records with, and see what happens to his wife and just in case he isn't your candidate, him as well. The relevant censuses 1861 and 1871 for Samuel 2's parents are.
RG9 3310 folio 54Harborn North Bierley Yorkshire 
Abraham Benn 54 Horton, Yorkshire, Head Married Coal miner
Ruth Benn 52 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Wife Married
Martha Benn 21 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted steam weaver
Joshua Benn 20 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Son Coal minerSarah Benn 18 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter Cotton weaver
George Benn 14 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Son Coalminer
Ellen Benn 9 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter

Can't find Benjamin and his family on this census - even with the information from 1871 of his family. Can't find John and Hannah but then there are a lot of Benns in this area consistently changing their minds on their ages and where they were born. if I have had this amount of difficulty hacking it with Samuels, I'm not even going to begin to try with a John. JAP has given you Abraham and his family with Ruth on the 1871 census. reference RG10 4440 folio 51Hunningway? House North Bierley Yorkshire  And mentioned Benjamin in 1871
RG10 4442 folio 23 Revy Hall North Bierley Yorkshire
 Benjamen Benn 34 Shelf, Yorkshire, Head Married Worsted weaver
Elizabeth Benn 39 Braceland, Yorkshire, Wife Married Housewife
Margret Benn 13 Horton, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted spinner
Ann Benn 11 Horton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Worsted spinner
Zillah Benn 9 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted spinner
William Benn 7 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Son 
Mary Benn 3 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter
Martha Benn 2 North Bierley, Yorkshire, Daughter
Joshua Benn 7 mths North Bierley, Yorkshire, Son

The eldest two children compare in names and ages with the children of Samuel and his wife. That may be a coincidence or it may explain why I can't find Benjamin and his 'family' on the 1861 census. I can't find a marriage for Benjamin (the 1860 Halifax one is someone else I think also marrying an Elizabeth) on FreeBMD
1881 RG12 4457 folio 5677 Kingswood St, Horton In Bradford, Yorkshire
Elizabeth Benn 49 Bursland, Yorkshire, Head Married
Zilliah Benn 19 North Birley, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted weaver
William Benn 17 North Birley, Yorkshire, Son Jobber in spinning room
Mary Benn 15 North Birley, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted spinner
Martha Benn 12 North Birley, Yorkshire, Daughter Worsted spinner
Joshua Benn 18 North Birley, Yorkshire, Son
Ellen Benn 8 Bradford, Yorkshire, Daughter
Martha A. Sugden abt 4 Bradford, Yorkshire, Granddaughter

Can't find Benjamin. Despite Elizabeth's married status he may be dead (haven't looked on FreeBMD). I can't see him on the 1891 census. Elizabeth is still married in 1891, but again Benjamin less. I suggest Louise you might request on the West Yorkshire board a lookup for North Bierley in 1851 for Samuel, Abraham and family. Right that really is my best shot. It’s now for you Louise, and JAP if your willing, to check through all this and see if you can spot any flaws?? Louise the attestation papers should not be a problem for John's army record. After the early 1880's attestation papers were filed alphabetically by surname and not by the man's regiment.

Regards
Valda