HORSBURGH, JAMES, F.R.S.

[hdw]

Rob, just to clarify things for your many readers here, can I be pedantic and say that your grandfather was James Flett Horsburgh, not just James Flett.

I used to correspond with and visit a relative of Ellen's in my home town of Cellardyke who was a distant cousin of mine and who was interested in her family history, and although her (our!) Cellardyke and Pittenweem ancestors were easy enough to research, we struggled with the Fletts, trying to work out who was from Portknockie and who from neighbouring Findochty. Robert Horsburgh and Mary Flett were married in Findochty, but in the later censuses Mary claimed to have been born in Portknockie.

I was told that after Mary Flett moved to Pittenweem, she sang its praises to her family back home, so they packed all their worldly goods into their boat and moved to P'weem. There are still descendants of the Fletts living locally. My sister's late mother-in-law in Pittenweem was one.

One interesting thing about the P'weem Horsburghs is the incidence of multiple births, not just twins but several sets of triplets, long before the days of fertility treatment. Robert Horsburgh and Mary Flett's son George Horsburgh (b.1864) was grandfather of the Lindsay triplets who started and finished at St. Andrews University on the same day. I think they all became science teachers. Two of them, Beatrice and Preston, taught at my old school, the Waid Academy in Anstruther. While I was there Beatrice married my Latin teacher, and Preston was my biology teacher in 2nd year.

Harry

[Ellie B]

Hary/Rob
The problem tracing Mary Flett may be because she was born Mary Wilson 05/03/1855 in Portknockie to unmarried mother Margaret Wilson domestic servant Macduff.
Margaret Wilson didn't marry John Flett until23/10/1857 in Portknockie.

In 1861 John and Margaret were in Caithness with 2 younger daughters but Mary was recorded as Mary Wilson with her maternal grandmother Helen Wilson(nee Falconer). and uncle Joseph Wilson at 16 Portknockie.
In 1871 Mary was Mary Flett, domestic servant unengaged at 10 Portknockie with great aunt Margaret Falconer (recorded as sister).

So John may not be Mary's birth father although she did name one of her sons after him.



John Flett may have had good reasons to leave Banff, I have seen him involved in 2 court cases on involving debts regarding his fishing boat and in 1881 one being fined for failing to educate 3 of his children (George, Isabella and Joseph). Also I believe there was a reduction in the fish in the Moray Firth at this time.
Mary Flett married in 1876, John and Margaret were still in Banff in 1881 and must have moved to Pittenweem in the following years as John died in Pittenweem in 1889.
Ellen

[hdw]

Hi Rob
Yes I am descended from th Pittenweem Horsburgh's. My grandfather Andrew Horsburgh was a son of Robert Horsburgh and Mary Flett. Robert was a grandson of the first Lock Horsburgh. T

Ellen

Talking of the first Lock Horsburgh (b.1787 in Pittenweem) do you know any family stories about how he got his name? The story I was told was that a ship was passing down the Forth and it put up a flag for 'pilot required', which always prompted a number of local fishermen to sail out and offer their services. The one who was taken on board got talking to the captain of the vessel, and happened to mention that his wife was expecting a baby. The ship's captain said that if the baby was a boy, he would be honoured if it was called after him. His name must have been Captain Lock, and the fisherman must have been George Horsburgh(Thomson) of Pittenweem.

I'm not sure if I believe all that. I've noticed that the name Lock (Horsburgh) is occasionally spelt Loch in some records, and I know that a merchant called David Loch, who lived near Anstruther, served as Inspector of Fisheries at about this time and wrote reports on the local fishing based on visits to the fishing towns and conversations with the fishermen. George Horsburgh may have encountered him at some point.

The other big question is, why did Lock Horsburgh and Betty Anderson's son Lock Horsburgh start calling himself Lockhart in later life, a form of the name which has been followed by many of his descendants?

Harry

[SavorSave]

Ellen, I was wondering where you came across Eliz. (Horsburgh) Lane's death on 14/6/1855? I have been searching for several years without success. Maybe I just missed something obvious!

I've also been unable to trace James Lane's death, who as you say was a solicitor (at Herne Hill). I think their children's India connections may have been influenced by Uncle James Macdonald.

I'm a direct descendant of James Horsburgh the hydrographer, via James & Eliz Lane and their youngest child Alfred Luther Lane, who was a colonel in the army, mainly in India but also with spells in Mauritius and Cape Town, where his fourth child, my paternal grandmother, was born in 1889.

Thanks for the enlightening information - I also hadn't realised that Jane Horsburgh and James Macdonald were cousins.

Best wishes
Richard

Hi Rob
James Horsburgh's eldest daughter Jane Frances married her first cousin James Horsburgh McDonald 13/01/1835 at St Giles, Camberwell. He was in the Bengal Artillery and ended as a Lieut Colonel.  They were childless but may have had custody of sister Elizabeth's 7 children after her death 14/06/1855 "at the home of her brother in law Lieut Col McDonald". I don't know what happened to her husband James Lane who was a solicitor but the Lane children seem to have had strong connections with India and the army. One of her descendents was William Horsburgh Lane, Lieut Col in Indian Army then after retirement archaeologist, author and Loch Ness monster hunter (honestly).
James Horsburgh junior was a clergyman and had 5 children, his descendents were clergymen, teachers , authors and one was a missionary to China.
This family is quite interesting to research it makes a change from ag labs and fishermen.
I hope this is of use to you.
Ellen

[Ellie B]

Hi Richard
I got the burial record for Elizabeth on ancestry, the image can be found by searching Surrey burials.
 The death notice was in the Morning Chronicle Mon June 18 1855,
" On the 14th inst at the house of her brother in law, Lieut-Col MacDonald, Elizabeth wife of J Lane esq and daughter of the late Capt Horsburgh FRS Hydrographer to the HEI Co; age 40.
(I have access to the online Gale Group newspaper archive via my local library ticket).
Presumably  James Lane died sometime after this date because he isn't referred to as being "late", but it doesn't explain why Elizabeth died at her brother-in-laws house.
Ellen

[SavorSave]

Thanks very much Ellen.

I think James Lane must have died before the 1861 census anyway - he doesn't appear then or subsequently, and I have searched for him fruitlessly elsewhere. The death record is difficult to pin down because JL is a fairly common name and he may have died before they started recording age on death certificates. I once took a chance on ordering a d.c. for a JL who died in Camberwell in the mid-1850s and it turned out to be an unrelated child.

An odd aspect to this is that in 1851 Elizabeth's b-in-law James Macdonald was living in South Mimms, whilst the Lane family was at Herne Hill. In 1861, James Macdonald & wife were at Herne Hill with three of James & Eliz Lane's children - although I have no proof that it was in the same house. I have long been working on the assumption that both James & Eliz Lane had died between 1851 and 1861 and that James Macdonald had taken over their house. However, your identification of Eliz Lane's death at 'the house of her brother in law' *might* imply that, although J Lane Esq was not noted as 'late', he had in fact died before his wife, and perhaps that James Macdonald had bought the house in order to provide income for his sister in law?? She would then indeed have died at her brother in law's house, albeit having lived there for a good number of years.

Maybe I should resuscitate my library ticket and investigate Gale Group's (Cengage's) records. Oddly enough I spend my working life negotiating with publishers for access to electronic resources on behalf of UK Higher Education!

Do you have a direct connection to the Horsburghs or is it just passing curiosity?!
Richard

[Ellie B]

Richard
I am a Horsburgh, but not a direct descendent of Captain James Horsburgh. My 3x Gt Grandfather Lock Horsburgh was Captain James' 2nd cousiin. Both were descended from William Horsburgh 1672-1754 Shoemaker of Crail. I sometimes get diverted of my direct line when I spot something interesting.
I suppose that Elizabeth lane's death certificate might show if her husband was still alive if she was described as a wife or widow. I've just taken a quick look at the Post Office Directory for 1855 which shows Lane, James esq in Herne Hill, so it would appear that he was alive in 1855. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any directories for the later 1850's on the Historical Directories site.

Ellen

[hdw]

Excuse my butting in, but are you sure, Ellen, that the Horsburgh line goes back to Crail? I've seen that theory advanced before, but I have them descending from William Horsburgh, shoemaker, and his wife Mary Bickerton in Elie, about nine miles west of Crail. Admittedly there were Horsburgh shoemakers in Crail too.

I have literally just heard from another Horsburgh descendant who has a query in the latest Fife Family History Society journal. He claims, like me, to be a 3 x great-grandson of the original Lock Horsburgh (b.1787). He lives in Kenya, and I'm waiting to hear more from him.

Harry

[SavorSave]

Ellen - I also had a look at the 1855 directory, and there is no J Macdonald listed at Herne Hill. Plot thickens!