Author Topic: Well & Truly Completed :) Gallichan/Neale, St Helier  (Read 5134 times)

Offline MotoFreako64

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Well & Truly Completed :) Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« on: Wednesday 01 August 12 21:07 BST (UK) »
Not sure about this one, I'm looking for the details of a possible marriage between Thomas (Phillip?) Gallichan and Sophie/Sophia Neale/Neal. The marriage would have taken place about 1839/40 in St Helier and I think Sophia was an Irish lass.

Any information on this possible connection would be gratefully accepted.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 01 August 12 21:37 BST (UK) »
The 1841 CI census has a Thomas & Sophia Gallichan but eldest child is 15

Was Sophia a second wife?
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Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 01 August 12 22:18 BST (UK) »
This couple have been quite difficult to research as there are 2 Thomas and Sophia Gallichan families in Jersey at this time. I have my ancestors backwards using the childrens baptism records on the Jersey Archives website (the transcriptions also include Sophia's maiden name to help me find them all.) Using that information I have searched the relevant census records and cross referenced the childrens names. On the 1851 census, Sophia was 27 and living at Parade Place. Thomas wasn't named on it and Sophia is named as Head. Possible answer to this is that there was Thomas Gallichan named as the warden at the Asylum on the 1851 census, although his occupation is given as a Labourer on his daughter Matildas baptism in 1855. Same again on 1861 census Sophia is named as head and aged 37. and there is still a Thomas at the Asylum listed as "Keeper of lodge". On the 1871 census they are both listed as living at Patriotic? Place? Thomas is now a Harbour Policeman aged 60, (which agrees with the information on Matilda's marriage record) and Sophia is 47, meaning Thomas was born abt 1811 and Sophia (or Sophie) was born about 1823/24. I haven't found the 1841 census for this couple yet.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #3 on: Monday 06 August 12 01:28 BST (UK) »
Have you noticed that in the 1861 census, it says that Sophia is "wife of T Gallichan Hospital Steward"? And the 1871 for him just says "Policeman".

In 1851, Thomas's address is the District General Hospital and Workhouse, his relation is Warder of the Insane, and his occupation is "Public Meter" (which is how I read it, and it seems clear). Presumably he was on duty overnight. Rather oddly, the person who filled out the schedule seems to have assigned people their current occupation as their relationship to the head, and some former occupation as their occupation; for instance, the last person on the page has "Gate Keeper" as relationship, and "Shipwright" as occupation. Ah -- possibly people did night duty as well as having a day job? A night-time gate keeper, for instance, could sleep on site and just be present if needed.

In 1861, both his relation and his occupation are "Keeper of Lodges", at District Jersey General Hospital. That fits with the description of him in Sophia's 1861 entry.

Just to note that in 1851 she is actually 28, and Anc'y has transcribed her surname with one "L". And in 1861 it calls her "Gallichio". Her place of birth is given as Ireland on all three censuses.

The eldest child in the 1851, Louisa Ann, was aged 9 and born in St Helier. Is it possible that Sophia and Thomas married in Ireland, for instance if he was in the military and posted there? It was pretty common for men in the British military in Ireland to marry Irish women.

There is really an astounding number of Thomas Gallichans and Sophia Gallichans in Jersey!

Have you established that the oldest children were children of this couple? I'm just wondering, given that he was 12-13 years older than her and, at 28, she was only 19 years older than the eldest child in 1851 (when the children are 9, 7, 5 and 1 - a possible gap there before the last one, although the 5-yr-old is named Sophia), whether maybe he was a widower with children when they married. For them to have married in 1839/40 -- she would have been 15-17 and he would have been 28/29 ...

"Sophie" would have been very unusual for an English-speaking woman at the time; Sophia was a relatively common name.

In 1841 there is a Sophia Nield in St Saviour, a female servant aged 18 shown as born in Foreign Parts. I might think she was as likely Irish.

Have you traced the other similarly-aged Thomas Gallichans forward from 1841? (Or just identified yours in 1841?)

Thomas 1811 in Trinity with daughter Fanny is accounted for in 1851, widowed.
Thomas 1811 in St Helier with wife Jane and daughter Louisa is accounted for in 1851.
Thomases 1811 in Trinity with wife Elizabeth and son Thomas aged 1, carpenter, is Thos Mallichan, farmer & carpenter, in Trinity in 1851.

I'm not managing to account for the fourth in 1851; in 1841 he is Thomas Gallichan 1811 in St Helier, shoemaker, with wife Elizabeth, 25, and children Thomas, 6, and Elizabeth, 2, and I don't see any of them.

There is a widowed Elizabeth Gallighan 1815, sick nurse, in a wealthy household in St Helier in 1851. She could be the wife of that last Thomas in 1841.

What's interesting in 1851 is that Clement and Jane Gallichan in Trinity, with whom the other Thomas, carpenter, and Elizabeth were living with a Thomas aged 1 (them being accounted for in 1851),  have with them in 1851 a Thomas aged 15, i.e. of an age to be the son of the other Thomas and Elizabeth. He is identified as son, but he doesn't match the Thomas aged 1 in 1841, who is, I think, accounted for in 1851.

It is possible that Elizabeth the sick nurse was not a widow, and your Thomas and Sophia were not married because he was previously married, and his former wife did the respectable thing and called herself a widow. These things happened not uncommonly. ;)

HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?


Offline la grande-méthe

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06 August 12 09:57 BST (UK) »
I thought the name Sophia Neal sounded familiar!

I have researched this Gallichan line before although I don't think Thomas and Sophia were the main focus as I do not have a marriage date for them. Civil registration did not begin in Jersey until 1842 so if they married they would have been just on the cusp.

I have Thomas' baptism as 15/5/1811 in St Helier, parents Thomas Gallichan and Ann Morisander. His godparents were also his grandparents, Joseph and Jeanne Gallichan.

I'll have a root around for a marriage later in the week.

Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06 August 12 21:32 BST (UK) »
Fantastic response, thanks for the information. JaneyCanuck... your response has given me lots to work on and lots to think about. I now know that Thomas started work as harbour policeman about 1862, so the occupations given on the census for 1861 and 1871 are correct. Another forum member has kindly sent me a link to a newspaper report of Thomas' death in August 1879. He was living in Sand Street at the time of his death and was described as Foreman of the Harbour Porters. I'm pretty sure all of the children were all Sophia's as her name is given as mother in the transcriptions of their baptisms, but I will now go back and double check them ;) Once again thanks for all your help and suggestions, slowly but surely my Channel Island ancestrt is starting to fall into place.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 August 12 22:34 BST (UK) »
You're welcome, for what any of it might turn out to be worth. ;)

My gr-grfather's eldest sister was supposedly born in Jersey around 1842, according to her lifelong censuses, and because of all the mystery surrounding that family, I always welcome the chance to go poke around in Jersey in case I run into some clue. In fact, yesterday I found somebody who is undoubtedly part of a Cornwall family of mine, a page back from one of yours, and corrected the mistranscribed surname at Ancestry just so she can be found.

Looking for Sophia Neal's origins ... there is a family in 1841 you might want to take a look at.

Regent Road, District 3, St Helier:

Thos Neal, c1791, born in England, occupation Army.
wife Eleanor, c1801, born in Ireland.
Children aged 15 and down, apparently born in the Channel Islands
(I think the "N" in the column for "whether born in same island" means somewhere else in the Channel Islands, since they aren't then shown as born in England, Scotland, Ireland or Foreign parts.)

He looks like an example of what I was saying: in the British military, and married in Ireland. They might well have had a first child or children in Ireland, e.g. Sophia c1824.

It could be worth looking for a will for them as well.

HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 August 12 11:34 BST (UK) »
I have a suspicion that you may have struck gold for me there "JaneyCanuck". Thomas Neal was indeed a soldier, baptised in Hammersmith, London in 1791. He served in Ireland and was also posted to the Channell Islands. They definitely had at least five children from what I can work out... George 1826, Margaret, 1831, Richard 1833, Thomas, 1835, Eleanor 1841 and although I have not found any hard evidence yet, there is plenty of circumstancial evidence to suggest there was also an elder daughter named Sophia born in Ireland in 1822 and baptised 13th January 1823 with "Tho's and Eleaner" named as parents --- possibly (hopefully!) my Sophia.

Thomas and Eleanor are both on the 1841 census and the 1851 census in St Helier, the latter has a note against Tho's to say that he is now "pensioner , late Serg't of ???????? company". (not quite sure of the spelling, it looks like Welerian company?).

I haven't found a will yet, but if I could find a marriage record for Sophia and Thomas Gallichan, Possibly 1840/41 it may give some more clues via witnesses etc, and I'm going to take another look the baptism records for Thomas and Sophia's children to see if the godparents names give any clues.

Interestingly I also have a Cornish connection in my channel Islands family, which connects to Sophia Neal.  Another of my 3x great grandparents was a chap named Henry Cornick, born in Cornwall in 1818. he married Mary Cocking, also a Cornish girl and they moved to Jersey where he worked as a quarryman. The family lived on Alderney for a time too while Henry was working on the breakwater there. Their son was Charles Cornick, who married Matilda Gallichan, a daughter of Sophia and Thomas! Interestingly, one of Matilda's brothers was also Thomas Gallichan who became the 2nd husband of yet another of 3x gt grand mothers (Ada Phillips, nee Cox)..... No wonder my CI ancestry gets so complicated LOL

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Marriage Look-Up please - Gallichan/Neale, St Helier
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 09 August 12 12:20 BST (UK) »
! Well wouldn't that be icing then. ;)

Sophia was baptised in Ireland? Ouch. I've identified just one Irish ancestor of my own, in the early English censuses, born c1770 in "Ireland", and I'm afraid his bones will remain undisturbed. Finding a marriage record for Thomas and Eleanor and a baptism for Sophia in Ireland - you may want to post the query in that forum, with a link to here.

I see his name now at the top of the list in service records at findmypast (I don't have paid access to see what's there). There's a stroke of luck. I also had one in that database: an ancestor in Kent who signed up on Christmas Eve, 1815, at the age of 16. Either very hungry or very drunk, I figure. You may not have looked there yet, from what you've said about ? ? company. Or that may be where the ? ? company comes from. ;) If not, check it out!
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?