Author Topic: Honora  (Read 12908 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Honora
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 01:00 GMT (UK) »
I couldn't find the baptism of Cornelius Riordan, 15th Jan 1800 in St. Finbarr's baptism register on National Library of Ireland site. There was however a John Riordan baptised on 16th Jan., son of John Riordan + Mary Duggan of Ballintemple (couldn't read place name properly). Sponsors Honora Sullivan + Joanna Duggan. Where did you get that baptism record?
There were 2 Cornelius Riordan baptisms in Bandon, Co. Cork, 1795 & 1796 on Irish Genealogy site.  More Cork ones are to be added.
I did a search for Honora Lyon etc in Cork on there. A few baptisms in 1790s. Also Mary and Ellr Lyon. Godmother of a Honora Lyne in 1791 at SS Peter & Paul in Cork was Honora Lyne.
There was a marriage at St. Finbarr, Cork 1796 of Honora Lyne to Cors Riordan. Witness was Cors Riordan. I assume "Cors" was Cornelius.
That's to show how common all those names were.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Honora
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 01:20 GMT (UK) »
Found one on NA.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8767074

Then using the alias on another website I get:

Cornelius    Reardon    Born 1801    Service Number 406    54th Regt Of Foot    Cork.

Edit: Found the service record on the other website too.

The Cornelius Riordan/Reardon in that National Archives record was aged 30 at discharge. Under that are years 1826-1841. Were those his years of service? If so, he was born around 1810/1. 16 seems a likely age to enlist.
You might be better to leave the search for origin of Cornelius for now. There may be no record of his birth and his marriage to Honora. When you see the Greenwich school admission record there may be a date for marriage of Honora to John Marlow. If so that will give you a time- frame for possible death of Cornelius.
Bear in mind that a regiment may have had favourite areas where it recruited. In that case, by law of averages, it would have men with same name. A man might follow his father, uncle or cousin into a regiment. Some of these would have the same name.
Cowban

Offline curtisd

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Re: Honora
« Reply #74 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 08:50 GMT (UK) »
Michael's parents were married according to the baptism register.

Die 21 Januari 1816 Baptizatus fuit Michael
On the  21st day of Jan. 1816 was baptised Michael

filius Cornelii Riordan + Honora (Lyne conj)*
son of Cornelius Riordan + Honor (Lyne married)

natus fuit die 14th Januari 1816
 (who) was born 14th day of Jan. 1816

Patrini Riordan fuere
Godparents of Riordan were

Dionysius Lynch + Joanna Harrington
Dionysius Lynch + Joan/Jane/Joanna Harrington

A me Ed Norris
by me Ed Norris

* conj. is abbreviation for conjugam, married.
Dionysius in Ireland is I think Jeremiah in everyday life, but I may be wrong.

As they were married then Cornelius should have died sometime between 1815 when Michael was conceived and 1819 when Honorora''s daughter by John Marlow was born in Cork. (Are we sure that a) daughter Honora/Hanora was born in Cork 1819 + b) that she was a child of the marriage to John Marlow? (Hanora b. Cork 1819 was mentioned in an early post, I noticed it when I read from the beginning today.) If Cornelius didn't die then Honora either was a bigamist or didn't marry John Marlow.
Spellcheck is working again. It's queried most of the Latin words.  ;D

Thank you for transcribing.

Offline curtisd

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Re: Honora
« Reply #75 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 09:54 GMT (UK) »
Where did you get that baptism record?

Find****** for Michael Riordan and An****** for Honora Lion


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Honora
« Reply #76 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 16:12 GMT (UK) »
The image of Michael Riordan's baptism you posted was an image of the original church baptism register, not a transcript. That's why I had to translate it. A transcript may have errors or may not be complete.
The main reason I wanted to look at it was to see if it mentioned if the parents were married, which it did.
My other reasons for viewing an image of register rather than a transcript are to check for errors in transcription, notes added to the entry, browse pages looking for potential relatives, get an idea of how common the surnames were and possibly learn a bit more about the community served by the church.

Cowban

Offline curtisd

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Re: Honora
« Reply #77 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 16:23 GMT (UK) »
Thank you.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Honora
« Reply #78 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 17:40 GMT (UK) »
Record set    England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
First name(s)    Michael
Last name    Riordan
Birth year    1816
Baptism year    1816
Parish    Soho Square
Diocese    Westminster
County    Middlesex
Country    England
Mother's first name(s)    Honora
Mother's last name    Lyne
Father's first name(s)    Cornelii
Father's last name    Riordan
Birth date    14 Jan 1816
Baptism date    21 Jan 1816
Church    St Patrick
You said you're unsure if this was likely to be the correct Michael. You're wise to be unsure. The only evidence you have is that his mother's name was Honora. As we know, Honora was a popular name in Ireland at the time. Michael features among the most common Irish names.  Riordan is a very common name. So, putting the 3 together, there may have been  a lot of babies named Michael Riordan born in those years, many without baptism records.
Until you know more about Michael Riordan, e.g. country + approximate year  of birth, you'll be catching red herrings. Add to that events around the possible time of his conception & birth, the end of a long major European war with serving and discharged soldiers & sailors on the move, followed by years of widespread harvest failures throughout Europe, leading to famine, unemployment, economic depression, cuts in wages, civil unrest and government fears of a revolution in Britain. It was an unstable time.

Besides all that, Michael Riordan was Catholic, or at least, the one who was baptised at St. Paul, Soho Square was. Whether your Michael Riordan was born & baptised in Ireland or England, if he was R.C. it's hit & miss if his baptism was recorded, and if it was, whether the record survived. Even if it did survive, if it was an English R.C. register, that it made it to an archive. Even if it got that far, it may never have been transcribed and therefore no transcripts online. Even if it was transcribed, some of it may have been illegible or damaged, there may have been individual entries, pages, years and even runs of years missing. I've come across all those things with my Irish and English Catholic ancestors, 18th-20th century. There's an entire decade of the early 19th century missing from the Catholic mission registers in an English town with a large R.C. population, of which my ancestors comprised a sizeable proportion, because the priest in charge was in poor health for years. Entries are missing from the years which were kept. (See Catholic Family History Society website for English Catholics and National Library of Ireland for coverage of R.C. parishes there.) Catholicism was illegal in Britain and Ireland until 1790 and it was another 40 years before Catholics gained (almost) equal rights. Even after that period England was a mission country until R.C. dioceses were set up again in 1850.  Some areas without large or longstanding R.C. populations had no Catholic churches. Priests held Mass in houses or schoolrooms or rooms above pubs. They would baptise babies at home. The register would have been a notebook. They might have lost bits of paper or forgot to write things in the notebook. One of these priests was a cousin of my 2xGGF. His own baptism, around 1821 is one of those missing, and his parent's marriage and baptism of his grandmother 50 years earlier (my 4GGM).
Cowban

Offline curtisd

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Re: Honora
« Reply #79 on: Wednesday 17 January 18 17:51 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your response.

Offline curtisd

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Re: Honora
« Reply #80 on: Saturday 20 January 18 20:07 GMT (UK) »
I ordered the school admission report earlier today. I'll update when National Archives contact me.