Author Topic: Scottish/English family arms ID please  (Read 3393 times)

Offline clanman

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Scottish/English family arms ID please
« on: Thursday 30 August 12 02:59 BST (UK) »
Found the following arms on a building at the Roman Camp Hotel in Callander, Perthshire, Scotland. It is not the original building built 1600's as hunting lodge for the Duke of Drummond and where my ancestors are shown as occupants in the 1694 Hearth Tax returns.
In 1897, the property was acquired by Reginald Brett, 2nd Viscount Esher, GCB, GCVO (1852-1930). He did extensive remodelling, of which the most obvious additions were the towers on the North and East sides, one of which contains a tiny stone Chapel, but Lord Esher also added the Library, the
Drawing Room and the guesthouse.
I think the arms come from the guesthouse, so if possible could a forum member confirm them as those of the Viscount Esher.
Macfarlane, Arrochar, Callander

Offline Temic

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 30 August 12 11:05 BST (UK) »
The arms for Reginald were: Gules, within an orle of crosses botonny fitchee or, a lion rampant of the last, holding in the dexter fore-paw a fasces erect proper - so, no, they're not his arms at all.
ESSEX Bonnett Burrows Clow (or Clough) Crampin Cressell Deacon Everett Heckford Humphries Missen Midson Pask Richmond Redgewell Tansley Tyler Whiting Wisby
SUFFOLK Brett Byford Chapman Churchyard Clow Coe Dearsley/Derisly Dous Hawes Mutimer Nunn Ransome Raw/Rolllinson Smith (Haverhill) Stollery Stringer Wallis Nunn NOTTS Hook Mills Pollicott
ENGLAND Parchment

Offline Skoosh

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,736
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 30 August 12 11:17 BST (UK) »
These look like the Gordon arms, but the crest is wrong. Chisholm has a boars head on a dagger but one boars head on the shield instead of three. The Campbell's used a boars head also. The dagger is the clue.
 Don't think there was a Duke of Drummond at the time mentioned. The Drummond's had a Jacobote Dukedom of Perth.

Skoosh.

Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 30 August 12 11:28 BST (UK) »
There appears to be a number of branches of the Chisholm(e) family that used the crest.  It is likely that one of these used the shield with three boars' heads.  I have been unable to find these other shields.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Stephen J F Plowman

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Still looking
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 September 12 17:58 BST (UK) »
These Arms are not Chisholm because, as already mentioned, there is only one boars head and it is not muzzled. 
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 22 September 12 23:17 BST (UK) »
I am going to disagree with Stephen.  There appear to be a number of branches of the Chishollm family that certainly had different crests and probably had different shields.  It would seem extremely likely that one of these branches had three boars heads on its shield.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Still looking
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 23 September 12 08:54 BST (UK) »
I'll put it this way, there are no officially recorded Scottish Arms for Chisholm that have more than one boar. 

Looking at the Arms I want to say Forbes but Forbes Arms have three muzzled bears' heads.
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline Skoosh

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,736
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/English family arms ID please
« Reply #7 on: Monday 24 September 12 15:11 BST (UK) »
This might have no connection to the building at all. It's possibly a nice old piece of armorial sculpture which somebody thought would look good on the gable.