Author Topic: assumed arms  (Read 18157 times)

Offline Peggysus

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #36 on: Friday 14 September 12 10:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the vote of support :).  I’ll let you know how I get on with the French Conseil Héraldique in the next few months. Quite agree that, apart from Lord Lyon, South Africa and Canada, the others seem to be more “publication” than grant. However, I’d like to leave a record and the French Conseil is only a fraction of the price of the others.

Another idea I’ve heard is to post a drawing/photo of the coat of arms to yourself in a registered envelope and after delivery, to keep it sealed as proof of date which could give some form of copyright. But I suppose this would only be if you wanted to take somebody to court for usurping arms. …

But it all seems like entering some “secret society”  – shame really.  ::)
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Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #37 on: Saturday 22 September 12 15:39 BST (UK) »
I think you will find that the Royal College of Arms created the arms for the Middleton family. As the family had no heraldic history, they were constructed from scratch using elements from the family names etc.  However they could only be used by Kate and Pippa as they were specifically designed for an unmarried (using a ribbon as a crest) woman (being vaguely lozenge shaped).

Thus for Kate they became inapplicable once she was married.

A correction if I may:  The Arms were devised and granted to Kate's father, Michael Francis Middleton.  As such they can be displayed by all the family members with appropriate "differences".  I put together a possible display which can be viewed at The Middleton Armorial Tree.  I even had a go at showing how Kate's Arms might be impaled with those of her husband: The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge Arms.
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline Stephen J F Plowman

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 22 September 12 16:07 BST (UK) »
With regard to assuming Arms within the United Kingdom.  In Scotland it is illegal and you can be prosecuted if you display Arms to which you are not entitled.  In England & Wales there is often a lot of nonsense written about the College of Arms could and could not do, especially during the Visitations. 

Whilst I am sure some Arms were genuinely "lost" because they were not recorded, the unfortunate fact is that they would not now be recognised as "lawful" ( there would have to be documentary proof to convince the College otherwise). 

The College of Arms does not have the legal "weight" as the Lyon Court but it could, in the future, put the heraldic boot in.  If you were to devise your own Arms for use in private there would not be a real problem.  It is a bit like having your own family rules for playing cricket/football etc..  No one is really bothered until you try to use those rules in a "proper" game.  If your child or grandchild was so successful in their career that they were honoured in some way that included the display of their Arms, there would be some possible embarrassment when the College of Arms informs them that the Arms they have used for generations are bogus. [My ggg-grandfather married an heiress and one branch of her family displayed Arms in various 19th century publications.  I wondered if she was also a heraldic heiress and so delved a bit deeper.  Unfortunately, that branch of the family had either assumed or been misled into believing their Arms were genuine.  I think it came to light in the 1890s when they wished to quarter the Arms of a heraldic heiress with theirs.  The result was a new grant that was similar to the assumed Arms but sufficiently different to ensure that the Arms were clearly new.]
Plowman - Dorset
Gollop - Dorset
Taunton - Dorset
Carver - Norfolk
Oyns - all
Tweedy - all
Also British Heraldry (www.heraldry-online.org.uk)

Offline Peggysus

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 02 May 13 20:27 BST (UK) »
And, as promised, here is my coat of arms as published !  Quite a good year to have a coat of arms relating to pits and miners published, although they've been in creation for almost a year so no provocation intended.

And Skoosh, something on them might be familiar to you if you're from the same area as me   :)
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Offline Skoosh

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 02 May 13 21:20 BST (UK) »
Ia it an iron thing for taking yer pit bits aff at the door?

Skoosh.

Offline Peggysus

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 02 May 13 21:45 BST (UK) »
Ia it an iron thing for taking yer pit bits aff at the door?

Skoosh.

Oh dear, don't you know what pheons are - you're from nearer my home town than I thought  ;D
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Offline Skoosh

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 02 May 13 21:53 BST (UK) »
Kelvinside for a mobile?

Skoosh.

Offline Peggysus

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Re: assumed arms
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 04 May 13 13:56 BST (UK) »
 ;D
Warmly & Sincerely