Author Topic: frederick & john thomas birch  (Read 4900 times)

Offline RendLill

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 03 October 18 23:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks for such quick response. Pity JDFod's interest in the familywill remain a bit of an unknown then if no posts for a few years.
I'm new to Lancashire research - trailing around online what were pretty much unknown family roots - Birch coremakers, cotton piecers, bleach works hookers and agricultural workers. I'll have to make it up to Wigan and Bolton one day for a look round...

Offline RendLill

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 03 October 18 23:22 BST (UK) »
Yes, I'd worked that out too. But still can't find her.
Had even wondered if Ella Margarete was child of a different mother but I have her birth certificate and she is indeed the daughter of John Thomas Birch and Ellen Birch, formerly Hart.
John Thomas Birch is buried at Heaton Cemetery in the same grave as his sister in law Mary Hart who died quite young. So where's Ellen?
I did wonder whether she had died if not in childbirth but from some complication after as she would have about 39 for the birth of her last child.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 03 October 18 23:28 BST (UK) »
There is an Ellen Hart death in Wigan Dec qtr 1904 aged 33 - but it links back to a 1901 entry for Abram, Wigan so not her under her maiden name
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 03 October 18 23:32 BST (UK) »
It may be best to merge this post with the 2012 one for continuity.  JCFod would then get a notification (providing they haven't changed their email address since 2013) and may respond with more info

I'll ask the moderator to merge it for you
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Offline RendLill

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family - Ellen Birch nee Hart
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 03 October 18 23:37 BST (UK) »
I sent off (hopefully)for a death certificate for an Ellen Birch died 8 August 1906, Turton - but then that showed her to be a spinster, age 64 - so not in my tree.  Cotton winder by occupation.

Thanks for suggesting/sorting the merge with the previous thread. Makes sense.
I see from your profile you're familiar with the site - and in Lancashire.


Offline CaroleW

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 04 October 18 00:01 BST (UK) »
It’s quite a mystery.  www.lancashirebmd.org has nothing for her and I have checked GRO online for Ellen Birch deaths 1904-1911 but none in the right area or age.

There is a 1910 death in Prescot aged 45 but she can be found on the 1901 with husband in St Helens
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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Thomas Birch and family - a Bolton family
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 04 October 18 00:06 BST (UK) »
I'm new to Lancashire research - trailing around online what were pretty much unknown family roots - Birch coremakers, cotton piecers, bleach works hookers and agricultural workers. I'll have to make it up to Wigan and Bolton one day for a look round...

These might be useful:
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks    www.lan-opc.org.uk
Lancashire BMD    www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Both have new additions each month.

Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society    www.mlfhs.org.uk
It has a Bolton branch. There's an online newsletter "Bolton's Genies".

Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society   https://lfhhs.org
Wigan Family & Local History Society     www.wiganworld.co.uk

Cotton Industry Jobs
https://www.andrewalston.co.uk/cottonindustry/jobs.html
(Other glossaries of cotton jobs are available.)

Edit. Last link doesn't work. The site can be found by an internet search.

Cowban

Offline sarah

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Re: frederick & john thomas birch
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 04 October 18 10:18 BST (UK) »
Hello RendLill

Welcome to RootsChat. I have now merged your new topic to the original topic so the member JCFod will be notified of our new replies.

Regards

Sarah

For Help on how to post an Image on RootsChat
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Offline RendLill

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Re: frederick & john thomas birch
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 04 October 18 17:39 BST (UK) »
The Ellen Birch nee Hart mystery: I even wondered whether she had done a runner or reverted back to maiden name?
Probably too much detail here - but in case of any interest...
The family story that my father (born 1920) knew was that his mother Nell Birch had been brought up by an aunt she didn't much like and got out of Bolton by volunteering towards the end of WWI - and thus meeting and marrying my grandfather - and going off to China with him.
My father was always annoyed (and rather hurt) because she had burnt family photos without discussing it with him - and all in all it seems to suggest she had a not very happy childhood and liked clearing out stuff and memories.
It took me quite a while to track Nell down in the 1911 Census as she is there called Ellen but is indeed living with her childless aunt (by marriage) Margaret Birch and her paternal uncle, Robert Birch, with the last baby sister Ella Margarete (perhaps called after her biological mother Ellen and the woman who became her unofficial mother Margaret).
Older children were with their father (including Frederick). So... all points to death of Ellen Hart - but could that 'Widower' status of John Thomas Birch in 1911 be a polite fiction and she'd gone off with someone else.
But then that seems unlikely with all those children... And John Thomas seems to have been quite a solid sort of figure through his long life: staying in touch with family, leaving a bit in his will.

I had a bit of communication with a hitherto unknown Hart cousin in Australia (DNA matched us), a descendent of Ellen Hart's brother Thomas who went out to Australia. My cousin had a memory of their branch of the family having some correspondence that referred to Ellen's death and the break up of the family but it hasn't come to light.