Author Topic: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment  (Read 9704 times)

Offline pmrobbo

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Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« on: Wednesday 03 October 12 12:36 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find out any information or where to look for information on Samuel Alfred LINDSAY. According to newspaper articles he served with the 58th foot Regiment in New Zealand in the 1840s. See references below. His wife was Honora (nee Carroll) Lindsay and she died in Auckland on 26 September 1893. I can find no death registry reference for him. Certainly his wife and son Alfred James LINDSAY lived and died in Auckland. His son Alfred James LINDSAY married Martha Anne Burke (of Martha's Corner's fame - the corner of Wellesley and Albert Streets).

The references to 58 Foot and Samuel Lindsay are:

Auckland Star, Volume XXIV, Issue 230, 5 October 1893, Page 8
"LINDSAY. -On September 26, 1893, at her, daughter's residence, Cook-street, Auckland,' after a long and painful illness, Mrs Samuel Lindsay, 82 years of age, wife of the late Samuel Lindsay, of the 58th Regiment, who served through tho Hutt war at Wellington; also in the first engagement at Wanganui under Sir Geo. Grey. Mother of 8 children, 28 grandchildren, 26 great-grandchildren.- Sydney and Melbourne papers please copy.”

[Wellington] Evening Post - 13 July 1892 Page 2
"JOTTINGS. Sir Julius Vogel is petitioning the House, through Mr. Duthie, for consideration. Honora Lindsay, widow of Samuel Lindsay, late 58th Regiment, is asking the Honse to consider her late husband's military services at the Hutt, Tikipaparoa, the Bay of Islands, and Wanganui. "

From Wikipedia
The 58th was formed in 1755 for service during the Seven Years' War. Originally numbered the 60th Regiment of Foot, and bearing the name of its colonel, Robert Anstruther, it was re-numbered in 1757 as the 58th Regiment of Foot. In 1779, during the American War of Independence they were stationed at Gibraltar, taking part in the Great Siege from 1779 to 1783. In 1782 they acquired their county association, becoming the 58th Rutlandshire Regiment. In the French Revolutionary Wars the 58th saw action in Egypt at the Battle of Alexandria, and later, under Wellington in the Peninsular campaign. During this they fought at Salamanca and at Burgos. In 1843 the 58th regiment took over garrison duties in New South Wales from the 80th who had been posted to India.[1] In 1845 they were sent to New Zealand because of Maori unrest in the Bay of Islands due to dissatisfaction with the Treaty of Waitangi. The regiment remained in N.Z. until November 1858 having been in action during the Northern Wars, Wanganui and north of Wellington during 1845-47. On embarkation for England, the regiment consisted of 16 officers and 194 men. Over 300 men of the regiment took discharge in New Zealand

In the book "Discharged in New Zealand: soldiers of the imperial foot regiments who took this discharge in New Zealand 1840-1870"  by Hugh and Lyn Hughes (Call number is NZ 929.3 H89 - Auckland City Library), Samuel Lindsay is not mentioned in the list of discharged soldiers of the 58 foot who decided to settle in New Zealand when the regiment left New Zealand in 1850. As I said I can find no death register reference. However there are two death reference that may be Samuel which might mean that he died when serving in the regiment:

1.  Early Auckland Deaths:  http://ouraucklandstuff.freeservers.com/AuckDeathsK-L.htm
"LINDSAY Died 5th June 1852, Samuel Lindsay, aged 39 years"

and

2. New Zealand Birth Deaths and Marriages website under registered deaths.
1848/872 Samuel Lindsay

I have order a copy of that death certificate. I cannot find any reference to the 1852.

It is all a mystery. So any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.





Offline Janette

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 03 October 12 18:32 BST (UK) »
Hello and welcome to RC

The Symonds St cemetery database has "The Anglican Sexton's list has a Lindsay who was a soldier at Block C 269, no St Paul's register link."

I see Honora,Alfred and Martha are all buried there

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/symondsst/sscem.html

Cheers Janette

Offline pmrobbo

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 October 12 12:42 BST (UK) »
Thank you for that.

For some reason I had presumed that the Lindsays were Catholic so had missed that possibility.

What I am trying to sort now is that we may be looking at two sets of Lindsays in Auckland at the same time.

Samuel Lindsay (a shoemaker) and Honora (nee Carroll) Lindsay
and
Samuel Lindsay and Honora (nee O'Connor) Lindsay . Honora died in Auckland in 1893 - married to a soldier

I now have the death information from eternal affairs for Honora (nee O'Connor) and also for the son of Honora (nee Carroll) who was Alfred James Lindsay born 1850 in Auckland and died 1913.

So the mystery continues.

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 October 12 16:23 BST (UK) »
Hi pmrobbo ...  welcome.   :)

Just so we can try to assist you further, can you give clarification on a few things, please ?

Quote from: pmrobbo link

Samuel Lindsay (a shoemaker) and Honora (nee Carroll) Lindsay

*   Where does this information - Samuel (a shoemaker) come from ?

Quote from: pmrobbo link
Samuel Lindsay and Honora (nee O'Connor) Lindsay . Honora died in Auckland in 1893 - married to a soldier


*   Does Honora LINDSAY's death certificate of 1893, state that her maiden name was "O'CONNOR" ?

*  And also, does the death cert. of Alfred James LINDSAY, state that his mother's maiden name was "CARROLL" ?

----------------

Mmm  ... I can't see another couple in NZ named Samuel and Honora (or variants) LINDSAY.   And there is just a single NZ death listing for an "Honora LINDSAY" (the one you have in 1893) ... likewise, just the one "Samuel LINDSAY death, 1848, which would fit the timeframe.  [Can't explain either why the apparent 1852, is not listed.   It would be worth though checking the microfiche Death Index which can be accessed at most larger libraries.  We do get cases from time to time, where births, marriages and deaths are missing from NZ BDM's online site (usually due to misspellings).

Cheers
    ~  Lu   



Offline Lucy2

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 October 12 16:37 BST (UK) »
Quote from: pmrobbo link

[Wellington
Evening Post - 13 July 1892 Page 2
"JOTTINGS. Sir Julius Vogel is petitioning the House, through Mr. Duthie, for consideration. Honora Lindsay, widow of Samuel Lindsay, late 58th Regiment, is asking the Honse to consider her late husband's military services at the Hutt, Tikipaparoa, the Bay of Islands, and Wanganui. "
   
Quote

It does seem rather odd that if say, Samuel died as far back as 1852 / 1848, Honora waited until 1892 before making this "claim" ?  Forty years, at least !   ::)

 

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 October 12 16:50 BST (UK) »
I did however spot the following file which is held at Archives New Zealand in Wellington.

http://archway.archives.govt.nz

Naval and Military Land Claims Commission 1896 and 1910 [record group]

LINDSAY - Samuel (deceased) - H.M. 58th Regiment
[claimed] by his widow, Ann LINDSAY, Auckland


Certainly this file is dated after the death of Honora  LINDSAY (1893) ... and it names this Samuel's widow as "Ann"  ... but I think it would be worth viewing (if only to establish if there was another Samuel LINDSAY in the 58th.)

If you'd like, I can take a look at the file, when I'm next at the Archives.   Let me know.

   ~  Lu

Offline pmrobbo

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 04 October 12 19:33 BST (UK) »
Lu

Thank you for your help. Much appreciated. I had seen the reference to Ann Lindsay. Sometimes in the families they are known by different names that happens frequently. I wondered if Ann could be Honora Ann Lindsay. Just speculative. Samuel's son Alfred James - his wife is Martha Ann(e) nee Burke. Martha's Corner in the Auckland CBD opposite the Sky City Casino (Albert and Victoria Streets) is named after her. Martha's mother Catherine (nee Myers) is known as Catherine Burke and also Catherine Townsend (Townshend) and that is because she is married to two people in Auckland at the same time. See Michael Burkes Statement. There is quite a bit of information on the "slums" of Chancery Lane in Auckland which the Lindsays, Burkes, Townsends are connected

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=AS18780521.2.11&srpos=1&e=01-01-1860-01-01-1890--10--1----0michael+burkes+statement--

Back to your questions. Yesterday the information from BDM arrived by email for Honora Lindsay died 1893 Auckland and also Alfred James Lindsay the son of Samuel Lindsay and Honora Lindsay who died in 1913 in Auckland. Another piece of information - a son of Alfred James Lindsay is named Samuel Alfred Lindsay after his grandfather. He was a jockey, and won three NZ Cups and was my great grandfather.

The information that arrived yesterday:

No: 711
When and where died:  1893 26 September
Name and Surname, Rank:  Honora Lindsay   - Widow
Sex and Age:  F   82 years
Cause, Duration, Attendant, Last saw:  General Debility, Dr Keud?? 26 September 1893
Father, Mother &maiden name, Profession of Father:  ?? O'Connor, Honora O'Connor, farmer
When and where buried: 27 September 1893 Auckland
Name & religion of Minister: Rev ? ? du Riew, Church of England
Where born, how long in NZ: Limerick  52 years
Where married, at what age, to whom:  Ireland, 16 years  Samuel Lindsay
If issue living:  1 Male 45 years, 2 Female 56 years and 42 years
Informant: C Little Undertaker Auckland
Registrar: E H Lyons 4 October 1893

No: 237
When and where died: 1913 19 February Auckland Hospital from Victoria Street
Name and Surname, Rank: Alfred James Lindsay  - Dealer 
Sex and Age:   M  63 years
Cause, Duration, Attendant, Last saw: Intestinal obstruction. Cardiac failure - Dr Maguire 19th February 1913 
Father, Mother &maiden name, Profession of Father:  Samuel Alfred Lindsay, Honora Lindsay formerly Carrol, Shoemaker
When and where buried: 1913 23 Feb - Symonds Street
Name & religion of Minister: Rev E.J. McLaughlin Roman Catholic
Where born, how long in NZ: Auckland  Life
Where married, At what Age, To whom: Auckland, 19, Martha Anne Burke, Widow 60
If issue living: 5 Males 43,35 33, 28, 25  2 Females  42 39
Informant: J Little authorised agent for C Little undertaker
Registrar: ?? 7 March 1913.

I have also ordered from BDM the information for a Samuel Lindsay who died in 1848.

Once again thank you for your help.

Offline mare

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 04 October 12 23:08 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat from me too  :)

Haven't done any looking about for you but my interpretation of the cert info   "Honora Lindsay formerly Carrol" would probably indicate a former marriage rather than a maiden name ?

 :) mare

Offline Tiki1962

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Re: Lindsay & 58th (Rutlandshire) foot regiment
« Reply #8 on: Friday 05 October 12 02:30 BST (UK) »
Hi there was a death for Samuel LINSAY in 1860. The registration is 1860/70 in BDM NZ online. Possibly this could be him?? I have often found relatives with differing spelling, that is why hide so well. Fingers crossed  :)
Tiki
Robinson New Zealand/ Ireland
Lynch England/Ireland
Huett New Zealand/India
Kennedy Durham, England
Lord England
Daffern England