Author Topic: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate  (Read 16384 times)

Offline bmatthews7838

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 12 June 16 19:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the grave markers. Now I am trying to find the children of Elizabeth Paton and John Andrew.  I am trying to see if Agnes Andrew who married Peter Walker is their daughter.  See Amy's information above.

Thanks
Becky

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 12 June 16 20:54 BST (UK) »
Peter and Agnes had
Elizabeth, born 1812
Peter, born 1815
John, born 1816
Margaret, born 1818
Henry, born 1820
Isabel, born 1823
Agnes, born 1826
James, born 1828
Andrew , born 1831
all baptised in the parish of Whitburn. You would need to check their baptisms on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to see if any of the baptisms tells you where they resided at the time.

If they followed the naming tradition, I would expect Peter's parents' given names to be Peter and Margaret, and Agnes' parents' names to be John and Elizabeth. So far, so good.

The 1841 census lists the family at Tippethill, parish of Bathgate. Peter Walker, 50, farmer; John, 20; Hendry, 20; Isabella, 18; Agnes, 15; James, 13; Andrew, 11; all born in West Lothian. So it looks as if Agnes must have died before the 1841 census.

If that is so, it's going to be pretty difficult to prove who her parents were. What is your source for saying that she was born in 1790 and why do you think her parents might be John Andrew and Elizabeth Paton? I note that the International Genealogical index lists only one child of this couple, John, born 1798 in Galston, Ayrshire.



Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline bmatthews7838

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 12 June 16 23:31 BST (UK) »
I am connected to Peter Walker  from Tippithill farm and I obtain much of the information from the McClure tree on Ancestry and they had Agnes Andrew born abt 1799. If you take a look at Amy Cunnigham's post above she said she had a handwritten note that Agnes Andrew was the daughter of Elizabeth Patton who had an illegitimate child Elizabeth Burns to the poet Robert Burns.   On Robert Burn's biography it said that Elizabeth Paton married John Andrew 1788.   I did find a John born to them but no Agnes so far. I did know that Agnes died before the 1841 census so I tried to find her on the GRO's but with no luck on births or deaths. Will keep trying. Thank you for the post.

Becky

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #30 on: Monday 13 June 16 12:39 BST (UK) »
I am connected to Peter Walker  from Tippithill farm and I obtain much of the information from the McClure tree on Ancestry and they had Agnes Andrew born abt 1799.
Ah. You originally said 1790 - I assume 1799 is a typo as Agnes' eldest child was born in 1812.

I know that the LDS have a practice of assuming, in the absence of other information, (a) that a couple's marriage was a year before the birth of their first child and (b) that women were aged 21 when they married. This isn't entirely unreasonable, though in my experience most women, or at least those in my tree, were a few years older than 21 when they married. Applying this logic to Peter Walker and Agnes Andrew would result in a guess that Agnes was born about 1790.

If the compiler of the McClure tree either copied from the LDS at FamilySearch, or worked it out the same way, then what you have is a guess, not a genuine or reliable date of birth.

Quote
If you take a look at Amy Cunnigham's post above she said she had a handwritten note that Agnes Andrew was the daughter of Elizabeth Patton who had an illegitimate child Elizabeth Burns to the poet Robert Burns.
Yes. I saw that, and also noted that Elizabeth Paton or Burns was born in 1785 and therefore cannot be the mother of Agnes Andrew born c 1790, or indeed anyone old enough to be married and having children in 1812 when Agnes' first recorded child was born.

Quote
On Robert Burn's biography it said that Elizabeth Paton married John Andrew 1788.
It is absolutely correct that John Andrew and Elizabeth Paton were married on 9 February 1788, in Tarbolton in Ayrshire. At the time Robert Burns' illegitimate daughter Elizabeth was aged only two; she was born on 22 May 1785 so had not had her 3rd birthday by 9 February 1788.

Given the Walker family tradition of descent from Burns, and the impossibility of them being descended from his daughter Elizabeth Paton or Burns, I wondered whether the Elizabeth Paton who married John Andrew in 1788 was the mother of Burns' daughter? Then Agnes Andrew would have been the half-sister, not the daughter, of Elizabeth Paton or Burns. This would be consistent with the statement in Burns' biography that Elizabeth Paton married John Andrew, and with a slightly garbled family tradition of a relationship to Burns being handed down in the Walker family.

So I had a look around and indeed the Wikipedia article on Elizabeth Paton describes her as 'later Elizabeth Andrew of Lairgieside, daughter of James Paton. It also says that she had four children to John Andrew. The relevant part of the Burness web site http://www.burness.ca/p94.htm#i940 also says that Elizabeth Paton, mother of Burns' daughter, married John Andrew.

So I think that is the answer to the Burns connection and to the parentage of Agnes Andrew.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline bmatthews7838

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #31 on: Monday 13 June 16 14:45 BST (UK) »
I also came to the same conclusion that she would have had to be the daughter of Elizabeth Paton who married John Andrew. GRO's have one Agnes Andrew born  March 15, 1789 in Tarbolton and father is John. Of course we still don't know if her mother was Elizabeth. But she did name her first child Elizabeth.

 There are several Agnes Andrew's born around the same time in Tarbolton with different fathers. So without the handwritten note from Amy Cunningham's post we could assume any one of those could be her father and not related to Elizabeth and John Andrew. I would still have to have proof that one of Elizabeth Andrew's children was names Agnes otherwise it would not go into my family history.

You have done a great job on this and I do appreciate all your help. I will continue looking for the names of Elizabeth's children although I doubt I will find them when they are not on the GRO's.

Thank you.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #32 on: Monday 13 June 16 14:56 BST (UK) »
GROS have one Agnes Andrew born  March 15, 1789 in Tarbolton and father is John. Of course we still don't know if her mother was Elizabeth.

No, but the Wikipedia article says that John Andrew was in Largieside. If the baptism records for this Agness Andrew gives her father's residence as Largieside, that would be quite good evidence for her being the daughter of Elizabeth Paton.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline bmatthews7838

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #33 on: Monday 13 June 16 15:11 BST (UK) »
You probably know already that John Andrew remarried Jean Lees in 1799 so Elizabeth had to have died. They were living in Tarbolton and had a son Archibald. I have all the Agnes Andrew's born between 1787 and 1802 from all over Scotland some of which have both parents but two others with no wife on there. That is why I was concentrating on  Tarbolton as they were the ones with only the father's name and the fact that John Andrew was living there.

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #34 on: Monday 13 June 16 15:18 BST (UK) »
I just obtained the OPR for Agnes Andrew and it states that John Andrew of Largie baptised daughter Agnes.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Peter Walker/ Tippethill, Bathgate
« Reply #35 on: Monday 13 June 16 17:31 BST (UK) »
That's great - I don't think it leaves very much room for doubt.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.