Author Topic: Josephine Haveron (Larne)  (Read 8007 times)

Offline John McCrea

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Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« on: Saturday 20 October 12 18:51 BST (UK) »
Hi all,
I am not sure if I have posted about this person again on here, but it has been a problem of mine for sometime now.
J.H it is said in family "takings" took her own life at Larne Harbour, but I didn't know a date so it was hard to try and find any newspaper articles.
I have since found out that she was duried on The 19th July 1924 aged 35 years (Larne Cemetery in a Haveron family grave)
With this new information I ordered her death certificate from Belfast taking off a few days for the death date to be about 17th July, Today I received a letter back from Belfast saying that no certificate can be found!!
Can anybody help as to where I can go now?
would I be able to get any sort of coroners report on her death?
If so, where do I obtain this?
Larne Library have not be able to find anything about a strange death with the dates given, so this is becoming even a bigger problem!!
Please HELP.

John

Offline liscoole

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 October 12 11:07 BST (UK) »
deleted
MAGEE (Dungannon Tyrone to Shankill Belfast, to Whitehouse Co Antrim,) HALL (Lisnaskea, Fermanagh to Yan Yean, Melbourne Australia) McIVOR (Whitehouse, Co Antrim), McCULLOUGH (Markethill, Armagh), DEMPSTER (Ballymena, Co Antrim to Belfast), CUMMING (Glasgow), EVANS (Llandysill, Montgomeryshire to Belfast), NEVIN/ NEVINS (Ballynahinch, Co Down to Belfast), EMMS (Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey), HURREY (Yan Yean, Whittlesea, Melbourne), FINLAY- Jane, of Co Down, m James McIvor 1867. HOBSON Tyrone

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 October 12 11:38 BST (UK) »
There are a few things which don't seem to add up here. After doing a Google search I found you have posted on quite a few boards looking for Josephine and the details are not always the same.

Here is Josephine Haveron with her family in the 1911 census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Glynn_Road/195438
Original image shows her name properly spelt as Josephine-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001560494/

Therefore, if she was 17 in 1911 she was born c1894 whilst according to your post here she was 35 in 1924 making her born c1889.

If she drowned, the body wasn't found straight away and there was an inquest (as there would have been) then she might have actually died a while before the date of burial.

What years were searched for a death certificate?
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline John McCrea

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 October 12 19:35 BST (UK) »
hi aghadowey,

Thanks for your reply, I did say that I could not remember if I have posted about Josephine Haveron before or not, as it has been an on going problem for many a year!! I also understand that some dates don't seem to match up, but from replies and emails most peolpe say that it is the "Norm" for people of that time to either lie or just guess about years of birth etc.

This is the reply that I got from Larne Council.

Hi John

Received you email from Jackie regarding tracing graves in Larne Cemetery and found the following information
 
GRAVE PLOT 2C  815  -  LARNE CEMETERY

Interments

Agnes Haveron buried 06 April 1928, aged 23 years

Josephine Haveron buried 19 July 1924, aged 35 years

Sarah Haveron buried 4 July 1935, aged 65 years

Patrick Haveron buried 23 November 1940, aged 70 years

All resided at 52 Glynn Road, Larne.

Hopefully this is the right family, it seems to tie in with the information Jackie found .

Hope this helps

Regards

Margaret Duffin

Cemeteries Administrator


Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #4 on: Monday 22 October 12 00:28 BST (UK) »
... or maybe she was never found.

Is there anything to be read in to the sequencing of those dates?
'Twould be interesting to understand the exact context from the register more.

Perhaps she went missing on 19-JUL-1924, but was not formally declared dead till 10 years later.
[I've seen this 10 year delay in another context.]

-----

There was huge social stigma associated with suicide, so it is unlikely to have been reported in the press.  Such was regarded as a "shame" that the family would want to cope with privately.

Such an act was (?and still is) treated legally as a crime.
[Motivated originally by religious reasons, being regarded as an insult to your Creator - you are meant to get on with doing good deeds within the given Earthly Paradise.]

Suicides used to be buried in unconsecrated ground away from the church.
[e.g. there was one at the cross-roads at Muckamore.]

----
Guess PRONI would have to be the starting point for the coroner's records.

----
Josephine lost her younger brother James in Belgum aged only 16 in 1915 during WWI.
www.cwgc.org

Perhaps that event, or the loss of her own sweetheart, proved too much to bear.
[Also, sister Agnes who died young may have been a long invalid.]

Some other HAVERON entries in there might help you to sort things out.
e.g. Where were John (9) and Josephine (7) in 1901?
[When the rest of the family appear to be in Sheriffsland, Kilwaughter.
 Were they "abroad" with relatives in Newcastle?]

N.B. They declared themselves as holding to the Pb religion then.

Perhaps Josephine changed her name on being formally confirmed in to CoI?

----
Hope that those thoughts help you a bit.

Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline John McCrea

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 24 October 12 02:00 BST (UK) »
TheWhuttle

Very many thanks for your detailed reply, and I will surely look into all of the matters that you suggested with regards Josephine Haveron.

The brother of JH, James, who was killed in WW1 was, and is  correct.

After talking to what I think is the last remaining link to the Haverons in Larne, and who is Patrick and Sarah's grand child, he can't remember that much of the old times. but he has been a mind of information with other family dates etc...

But for the last few years Josephine has been a very big problem of mine, tomorrow I do plan on telephoning Belfast to ask about other avenues that I can follow with regards this matter, I also need to talk to Larne Council, to see if they can find out anymore information about JH.

Thank you once again for your help.

John McCrea

Offline John McCrea

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 24 October 12 02:06 BST (UK) »
deleted

I was going to thank you for your help, but you seem to have "Deleted" your message...... Hay Hoo!!

John McCrea

Offline liscoole

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 24 October 12 14:19 BST (UK) »
I deleted it because it seemed no longer relevant, as it now seems her name was indeed Josephine and the census confirms it :)
MAGEE (Dungannon Tyrone to Shankill Belfast, to Whitehouse Co Antrim,) HALL (Lisnaskea, Fermanagh to Yan Yean, Melbourne Australia) McIVOR (Whitehouse, Co Antrim), McCULLOUGH (Markethill, Armagh), DEMPSTER (Ballymena, Co Antrim to Belfast), CUMMING (Glasgow), EVANS (Llandysill, Montgomeryshire to Belfast), NEVIN/ NEVINS (Ballynahinch, Co Down to Belfast), EMMS (Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey), HURREY (Yan Yean, Whittlesea, Melbourne), FINLAY- Jane, of Co Down, m James McIvor 1867. HOBSON Tyrone

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Josephine Haveron (Larne)
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 24 October 12 14:24 BST (UK) »
Please do not delete posts on a thread as it tends to make nonsense of later replies- and the details originally posted might help someone else.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!