Author Topic: Pollocks in Derry  (Read 7196 times)

Offline Dave MacLurg

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Pollocks in Derry
« on: Saturday 27 October 12 12:25 BST (UK) »
I have Ann Pollock (1768-1840) who married David McClorg (1750-1836) of Templemoyle, Londonderry.
I'm fairly certain that her father was David Pollock (1742-1794) who married Hester George (1746-1789).
Ann had a brother, David (1768-1802) who married Martha Westbey (1769-1848) and emigrated to Pensylvania.
Somewhere I picked up that David Pollock (1742-1794) was a son of Thomas Pollock (1695-1790) and Mary Cochran. Can anyone confirm that Ann's father was David and that David's father was Thomas?
There are letters written to Ann & David McClorg on my web site at www.maclurg.com and there are many references to Pollocks there.

Offline RichardinMichigan

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 01 April 15 15:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Dave,

I'm a great great great great grandson of John Cochran(e), Sr., born ca. 1760-70 who resided in the townlands of Moys, Largy and Deer Park (where he is listed in the 1831 census).  His brother, Samuel lived at Moys and Carrick.  I now have three DNA matches with descendants of Robert Pollock (ca. 1747-1839) through his son, Andrew Pollock (1783-1874). 

I've lately discovered an extant letter (on page 3) from Robert Pollock (1818-1899) which mentions my great great great grandmother, Margaret (nee Cochran) Cochran who was from Oghill, near Nedd, Ballykelly.  Robert Pollock's brother, Hugh Steele Pollock (1820-1909) was married to Margaret's sister and we know that their daughter, Matilda Jane Pollock (1845-1938) was also born at Oghill. 

Important thing about Robert Pollock's 1852 letter is that he mentions his old neighborhood -- Drumhaply and Drumaduff.  Drumhaply, I understand, was located in the townland of Maine South, which borders Drumaduff on its eastern edge.  Both of these townlands are just east and south of Templemoyle, (and in today's Dungiven Parish, though they were previously part of Bovevagh). Somehow there has to be a genetic link connecting the descendants of the Pollocks and the Cochrans.   

Robert Pollock, father of Andrew and grandfather of Robert, writer of this letter was probably the one listed in Drumaduff townland in the 1831 census.  I notice, too, there was a Sarah "Coughran" living in the townland of Leeke (borders Templemoyle on the south), and next to her was an Oliver Pollock.  My great great great great grandfather's brother, Samuel Cochran is listed in the townland of Carrick (as Samuel "Coughran") in the 1831 census, which lies on the northern border of Templemoyle.

You've doubtless seen the letters of David Pollock to McClorg, Templemoyle.

http://www.dippam.ac.uk/ied/records/41387

What do you make of the reference to "Uncle Robert"?  Could he be the Robert Pollock who moved to Indiana Co., Pennsylvania at the end of his life and is buried in Gilgal Cemetery there?  If you are right about the connection to the Thomas Pollock-Mary Cochran union, this could explain why my DNA tests show kinship with the Indiana County, Pa. Pollocks...

Richard Cochran

Offline JP in Maryland

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #2 on: Monday 25 May 15 08:00 BST (UK) »
Richard -  I am very interested in your DNA results, or more specifically to that of the descendants of Robert Pollock (1747-1839) and his son Andrew with whom you have matches. I presume that you are referring to Y-chromosome DNA. Can you tell me where the results are posted? Do they belong to haplogroup R-M269 or I-M223?  These are the two main groups for Pollock/Polk surname. You can see them posted at WorldFamilies Polk/Pollock Project -
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/polk
I gather that the Thomas and Andrew Pollock that you mention came from Templemoyle or nearby, but I am not clear on how they relate to the David Pollock (1742-1795) mentioned by Dave. I have more information on this fellow - his wife was Hester George and they had 5 children that I know of born c. 1750-1760's: John, David, Samuel, Robert and Ann (who married David McClurg). 
     
There was a Thomas Pollock married to a Mary Cochrane who lived in Coleraine in early to mid-18th century. They had many children most of which emigrated to Pennsylvania and had numerous descendants. You can read an account of them at https://archive.org/details/pollockgenealogy00hayd   
See pages 26-43.  The names of Thomas Pollock and Mary Cochrane are not mentioned in this article but comes from later accounts. See e.g. O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees Volume 2, page xvii (accessible on Google Books).
     
They did not have a son named David.
     
John Polk   
Maryland USA
 

Offline RichardinMichigan

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #3 on: Monday 25 May 15 15:58 BST (UK) »
Hi John,

Unfortunately the DNA results are through my autosomal test at ancestry.com and since I do not have access to the profiles generated by the tests of others, I do not have exact strings of those  matches to share.  (I fully recognize these sorts of results could also mean shared ancestry through some other hidden link, including the possibility that I have Pollock blood in my veins rather than these Pollocks having Cochran blood in theirs!) Two of the four matches I am very certain of.  Robert Pollock's grandson (through his son Andrew), Hugh Steele Pollock (1820-1909) was married three times, the first to a sister (Mary Jane Cochran, d. 1865) of my great great great grandmother, Margaret Ann Cochran (she married Matthew Cochran in 1832, thus a Cochran married a Cochran).  My genetic match with these two people is entirely understandable.  However, I also "match" with a descendant of Hugh Steele Pollock's youngest brother, Andrew Pollock Jr. (1842-1925) who was not married into the Cochran family as was his brother.  Most recently I have also found a genetic link to Ms. Darian Shae-Erman-Pollock, of Saskatoon, Sask., a great great great great granddaughter of  John Pollock (1793-3 Apr 1874), husband of Martha Ross.  The Canadians have apparently not found a home for their Irish ancestors who originally settled in Quebec and spread across Canada.

Andrew Pollock, father of Hugh Steele Pollock was listed in the 1831 census at Tillydrum (Terrydrum), a townland that is adjacent to Ballymore, which my great great great grandfather Matthew Cochran called home when he was married in 1832 at Limavady.  I have turned up a letter written in 1852 by Andrew Pollock's eldest son, Robert (1818-1899) which happens to mention the arrival in America (Oct 1851) of my widowed great great great grandmother, Margaret and her two sons and the fact that she was his brother Hugh's sister-in-law.  That same letter by Robert Pollock mentions his desire to know more about his Irish relatives left behind in Drumhaply (a placename in the townland of Maine South a) and Drumaduff -- the two townlands bordering each other -- Maine South in the old Balteagh Parish, and Drumaduff in the old Bovevagh parish -- and both just a little southeast of Templemoyle.  Significantly in the 1805-1815 timeframe my great great great great grandfather, John Cochran, Sr. and his brother Samuel Cochran lived in and around the townland of Moy(e)s, with John ending up in Deer Park townland bordering the River Roe when the 1831 census was taken, and Samuel at Carrick, which borders Templemoyle on the north. 

The intriguing story told by James Cochrane (1864-1947) a grandson of old Samuel Cochran of Carrick is that our family originally came from the vicinity of Macosquin (bordering Dunboe parish) leading me to wonder if  the statement made by T. H. Mullin in his Limavady and the Roe Valley that "In 1771 the Clothworkers' estate at Dunboe was let to the highest bidder, with the consequences that rents were raised and many people emigrated." might account for the arrival of my Cochrans around Moyes no later than 1805.  (The 1831 census shows a Sarah Coughran with two other females living in the townland of Leeke, bordering Templemoyle on the south, with an Oliver Pollock living in the very next house -- another source of curiosity). 

So far I have not discovered if anyone knows how long the Pollocks of Templemoyle were there -- could they have moved down from Dunboe?

As far as the connection to David Pollock goes, I have gathered records of the family of Robert Pollock (d. 1839) in Indiana County, Pa.  He had a son David (1796-1875) by his second wife who came to America in 1822 and settled in Indiana County, Pa.  Indiana County Pollocks assert that their ancestor Robert made more than one trans-Atlantic crossing before settling permanently in Indiana County, though I think at his age, it's likely he joined his son Robert in 1822.  The Indiana County Pollocks also assert that David (1742-1795) was their Robert's brother.  Indiana County is adjacent to Westmoreland County, Pa. and this might have led to this claim.  There is no doubt the two men were of the same age group, but I have seen no direct evidence they were brothers.

It would be nice to know if the 1848 letter referenced by Rev. Hayden in his account of the Pollocks of Pennsylvania still exists somewhere!

Have you happened upon the abstracts of the wills of Ephraim and Thomas Pollock of Dunboe?

Thanks for responding, I'll check out the items you referenced.

Richard Cochran

P.S.  My Y-Chromosome test is Kit #335360 on the Cochran DNA Project, but that's of limited use for the Pollocks.

 


 


Offline JP in Maryland

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #4 on: Monday 15 June 15 00:08 BST (UK) »
Richard –

Very sorry for the long delay in getting back to you on this - was on travel for a couple weeks and am just catching up.

I very much appreciate your feedback although it is a bit disappointing to find out there are no Templemoyle Pollock Y-DNA results that I can access. I guess I understand your situation a little better now – i.e that you have Pollocks turning up as possible relations via autosomal testing but don’t know of any specific Pollocks in your tree at this point. 

My interest in Pollocks of Templemoyle is that two of them, John and Robert, wrote letters to President James K. Polk in 1846 and 1848 and claimed that his ancestors had originated from there. Following is transcript of letter written by Robert

=========================================================================================
To his Excellency, The President of the United States,

The undersigned Robt. Polk (alias Pollock) of Templemoyle County Londonderry, Ireland Testifieth
That subscriber is the son of Samuel Polk now 90 years old, that the said Samuel Polk declares he was born years after Ezekiel left this country to sail for the United States; that Ezekiel Polk, he has been led to believe, was grandfather to James K. Polk, the presiding president of the United States, that the said Ezekiel Polk and Samuel Polk were first cousins; that besides the subscribers and his father, there also resides in Templemoyle Robert Polk, Sr., brother of Samuel, and uncle to the subscriber.

That feeling pleased and honored that our bearing the name of Polk of Irish extraction, sprung from the same ancestry, occupied the highest situation in one of the first and most powerful nations on the Earth, subscriber could not resist the temptation (when an esteemed and excellent friend was to sail for America) of making known to President Polk, that in the land of his forefathers, and in the very house of his progenitors, there still lives in peace and independence a few descendants of that old family, who feel a disinterested pleasure in knowing that a near and worthy Kinsman has been advanced to honor.

The above particulars I will have transmitted, with every proof of their authenticity, should you at any time require it, and any thing farther you may desire to know can be communicated verbally by Mr. Jas. K. Fisher, my young friend and the bearer of these lines,

With every feeling of respect,
believe me yours faithfully,
Robert Pollock
Templemoyle
4 March 1848
=========================================================================================

It is of course not uncommon for people to claim relationship to prominent individuals of the same surname and there are some incorrect statements in this which makes the basic claim questionable. In particular the statement that Ezekiel Polk, grandfather of President Polk, left from Templemoyle is definitely not true and the timeline is seriously off, for it is well known that Ezekiel was born in Pennsylvania in 1747. Ezekiel’s self-composed epitaph, etched on his tombstone, contains the phrase “Pennsylvania born.” His father, William Polk/Pollock was in America by 1727, when he purchased a tract of land in Cecil County, Maryland. He sold this in 1736 and moved to the Cumberland Valley area of Pennsylvania, where Ezekiel was born. The family moved again, finally settling in what is now Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, around 1753. William Polk was afterwards referred to as William Polk of Carlisle, since Carlisle was later made the seat of Cumberland County PA, although Carlisle did not really exist during the time William and his family lived in that area. William’s date of death and place of burial are not known; he was alive in 1757 and probably died shortly afterwards.

President Polk took the letter seriously and had a copy sent to his cousin Bishop Leonidas Polk for comment. Bishop Polk replied that “I have not a doubt that the writer is of the same family, as well from the name of the locality, for that was the precise region from which I have always heard our ancestors came. He is however deceived in the degree of his relationship to us.” Whether he meant Londonderry as the “precise region,” or Templemoyle, is open to question but this certainly makes Templemoyle a place of interest for further research.

If you come across any Pollocks from this area or descendants of such that I can contact please let me know.

No I don’t have the will abstracts for Ephraim and Thomas Pollock of Dunboe – where can I get them?

Thanks again for your informative note and please accept my apologies for my delayed response.

Regards -

John Polk

Offline RichardinMichigan

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #5 on: Monday 15 June 15 03:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks John,

That's very interesting!  I knew about Samuel Pollock -- this was his death notice in the Londonderry Sentinel:

Pollock Samuel 26-Mar-52 At his residence, Templemoyle, near Newtownlimavady, on the 8th
February, Mr. Samuel Pollock, in the 93rd year of his age.

I do know the Pollocks I'm related to -- Robert Pollock (1749-1839) who was probably in Drumaduff townland.  His son Andrew was the father of the two men whose descendants I am related to through DNA tests -- Hugh Steele Pollock (1820-1909) and Andrew Pollock, Jr. (1842-1925).

I am conferring with Bobby Forrest on some genealogy work he will undertake for me in Ireland in July.  I shall try to get Thomas and Ephraim Pollock's wills.

There are still many Pollocks in Indiana County, Pa. -- maybe we can persuade one of them to take a y-Chromosome test!

More later. 

Richard

 

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #6 on: Monday 15 June 15 08:08 BST (UK) »
See here for Will Extracts- pre-1900 Wills have been destroyed but the wording was copied by clerks into Will Books and these survive (some are linked here- see 'image') but if it says administration then there was no Will and no paperwork remains.
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx

Also worth checking the Will Extracts here-
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/index.jsp
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline JP in Maryland

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Re: Pollocks in Derry
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 25 June 15 06:51 BST (UK) »
Richard -

Once again, sorry for being slow in responding to your last. It would be great if we could get a DNA sample from the Pollocks of Indiana County. Can you contact any of them or point me toward any? It would also be great to get DNA from others in Londonderry or Tyrone.

I corresponded with Bobby Forrest about Pollocks a while back (2008-10) and he was very generous with his time and the information he passed on to me. I would be glad to share it with you but should perhaps contact him again first. Do you know if he still uses a Hotmail address?

Thanks -

JP