The Sheafe family of Wye

[Terry Luckhurst]

I am not sure if this topic is extant. But I checked the Wye Parish Registers on line and there is no christening/baptism record for a Matthew Austen 1 Nov 1615. I also checked the Kent Parish Tyler Index for Wye and no record there either. 

[MattD30]

I am not sure if this topic is extant. But I checked the Wye Parish Registers on line and there is no christening/baptism record for a Matthew Austen 1 Nov 1615. I also checked the Kent Parish Tyler Index for Wye and no record there either.

Hi Terry

Thanks for your message, this post is very much still alive. I can't remember who found the date of 1615 for Matthew Austen, but it is different to the date I have for him.

The info regarding the 1615 date was given to me by another researcher who had done a lot of work on the Austen/Austin/Awsten line

Matthew's father, Valentine Austen was married three times I believe. I am sorting through some of my notes this week so when I get a chance to look at them.

There are a lot of Austens in that area, and a lot of my Austens are related. There are Austens in Adisham and Littlebourne who are related to one line of my research and those in Wye who are related to another branch. The Adisham/Littlebourne and Wye lines are connected a few generations back.

I will go through my notes on the Austens and get back to you during the week.

Matt

[MattD30]

Hi Matthew,

My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.

The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" .  I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success.  Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success.  Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine.  However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married.  Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.

The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":

Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents.  At the same.  Sept. 24, 1625.

Source for the above entry:  Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.

The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?] 

Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.

I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane.  I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall.  Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.

Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.

I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.

I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.

Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine.  Have you found that marriage?  I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.

In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:

1,  Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham.  This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye.  Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.

2.  Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.

3.  Henry  baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham.  He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.

4.  Valentine  baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.

5.  William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.

6.  Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham;  died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown.  The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased.  Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden.  Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.

Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe:  I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye. 

There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:

1.  Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh;  and,

2.  Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.

I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Hope you are well. Where did you get the information regarding the 1615 christening of Matthew Austin from? I haven't been able to find it myself and another researcher has posted on here saying there is no christening for a Matthew Austen in Wye on the 1 Nov 1615.

Do you have a copy of the parish register entry you can send me or was this christening in a different parish?

There is a Matthew Austen christened in Chilham in 1627 and then before that the only one I have found is in Adisham in about 1562.

The Austen tree is quite complex and extensive so it may take us a few days (or weeks) to go through it and sort this out.

Matt

[Terry Luckhurst]

Hi Matt
Thanks for your quick reply. Just to say that my interest is in the Luckhurst lineage and having halted at William Lucas (Luckhurst bp May 1636 Charing Kent) I am now proceeding down each of the half bloodlines; the Austens emerge at John Luckhurst's (bp Nov 1716) wife Sarah Austen (bp Nov 1722 Little Chart). So progressing back from Sarah I have reached Matthew Austen (1562-1640) and have nearly all the provenance which you and Susan have been discussing...very  interesting and impressive. I got stuck with Elizabeth Austen (nee Sheaffe) at Valentine's July 1651 will and probate and have not established her final outcome, ie remarriage or death as a widow. But essentially for what I am doing Elizabeth's fate does not affect my patrilineal Austen line, although its nice to close out someone. My project also covers the background of the places that all ancestors relate to by their three personal events. In doing so it has become almost a book with quite a lot of QI accounts. Best Regards Terry

[MattD30]

Hi Matt
Thanks for your quick reply. Just to say that my interest is in the Luckhurst lineage and having halted at William Lucas (Luckhurst bp May 1636 Charing Kent) I am now proceeding down each of the half bloodlines; the Austens emerge at John Luckhurst's (bp Nov 1716) wife Sarah Austen (bp Nov 1722 Little Chart). So progressing back from Sarah I have reached Matthew Austen (1562-1640) and have nearly all the provenance which you and Susan have been discussing...very  interesting and impressive. I got stuck with Elizabeth Austen (nee Sheaffe) at Valentine's July 1651 will and probate and have not established her final outcome, ie remarriage or death as a widow. But essentially for what I am doing Elizabeth's fate does not affect my patrilineal Austen line, although its nice to close out someone. My project also covers the background of the places that all ancestors relate to by their three personal events. In doing so it has become almost a book with quite a lot of QI accounts. Best Regards Terry

Hi Terry

As you've probably found yourself, there are a lot of Austens around in that area and a lot with the same name (there are several Richards, Roberts, Valentines and Matthews).

I descend from Elizabeth Austen, daughter of Valentine Austen and Elizabeth [nee Sheafe]. As far as I know, the Matthew who was christened in 1615 was Valentine's son by his first wife. Elizabeth was his third wife.

I have nearly all the Wills for the Austen family in Wye and the surrounding areas and these are very useful in putting the tree together. Have you seen the Will of Matthew Austen [1562-1640]? If not I can send you a copy.

I've printed out a basic tree for the family so I can go through it tonight and tomorrow and get back to you with more info. I think I have a copy of Valentine Austen's Will and a transcript which I can send you if you've not got it.

How far have you managed to get back with the Austens yourself? I've been very lucky as the Austens were also related to my Nethersole and Denne ancestors in the Littlebourne and Adisham areas of Kent. Through the connections with these families, and through Wills and other sources (mainly records in the Court of Chancery, Quarter Sessions and other records).

As you says yourself there is a lot of interesting material regarding the Austens and along with the Denne and Nethersole families in Kent, and the Gravett family in Surrey/Sussex, they are propably one of the most interesting set of ancestors I've found.

Anyhow I will stop there and get back to you in the next few days if I can.

Matt

[Terry Luckhurst]

Hi Matt
Many thanks for the update. I have from Tyler Index Kent Wills those for Matthew (1562-1640) his wife Thomasin (abt 1563-1642) and Valentine (1595-1651).

I cannot find any source for the early marriage of Valentine before Jane Terrall and the first child I have for them is Matthew bp 24 March 1627 followed by another Matthew (elder died?) bp Oct 1629. I also came across a burial of a Thomasin 9 Oct 1630 but could not find a baptism. However as you said there are a plethora of Austens living in the same and adjacent parishes of similar generation, given names and ages - difficult to discern. As the saying goes, if you spend a lot of time researching your ancestors you end up finding out that you are your own cousin!!

My project is to research the four major bloodlines from my grandparents which are Luckhurst, Marchant, Crittenden and Morris ostensibly patrilineal until I hit the authentication buffers. Then my second phase is to track back and take the half bloodline branches taking the wife's father and trace  back patrilineal until I hit the authentication buffers. I have limited myself to only two such transfers to ensure the relationship is not too remote. But surprisingly I have made it back to the 12th generation with full provenance on the Luckhurst bloodline with one transfer, but have yet four more earlier branches to take, although one the Bournes will reappear three generations earlier. In the process I research the parishes for historical and QI facts along with hopefully supporting historic images and maps. The other task was to carry out a mini demographic analysis of all the ancestors on the direct line back to 1837 when civil registration started and a few years later the National Census to see the effect of the Industrial Revolution. This involved obtaining nearly 300 personal events from GRO £££££! So you can see that my project is not so much a family tree as my branching forms more like a poplar tree. After one year my draft write up (don't want to call it a book) has exceeded 320 pages.

My immediate goal is to trace back our Austens as far as I can with sound provenance. So linking  a series of  fathers and sons is the goal and at this time I am addressing Matthew and Thomasin. Does she have a maiden name? I make a record of progenies but only baptism and burial unless a QI fact surfaces.

Best Regards
Terry


 

[Terry Luckhurst]

Hi Matt
Sorry to bother you again, but just before I move onto Robert Austen (b ca1479) I have noted a possible conflict of burial sites for Matthew Austen. In his will he asked to be buried at Chilham. But in his widow's will 2 yrs later she asked to buried near him at Wye, where she was later interred. The Wye Parish burial registers have a record of Thomasine but NOT Matthew. Not a major problem for my purposes but I would like to be accurate. Do you have a source citation for Matthew's burial place? Without any other record one can argue for both Wye and Chilham, ie did his Exec carry out his wish or was Thomasine correct? No MIs at either of the two sites.

I noted that Matthew and Thomasine had amassed quite a family. I have recorded eight probably nine with good source citation, re:Tyler Index. But their early records were inconsistent with some baptisms not providing the given name of the father - with many Austens in and around adjacent parishes it makes it difficult to pigeon hole them. I also note that Tyler Index has a hiatus 1640-1660 (Civil War and Interregnum period) which doesn't help. Do you have a full verified list of their children?

I think I will hit this Austen line buffers with Robert (Richard's father) as records are becoming increasingly difficult to come by prior to 1538, unless MIs have survived and wills were written. Do you have a link to any will Robert may have produced?

Best regards
Terry

PS I am not my own cousin yet!

[MattD30]

Hi Matt
Sorry to bother you again, but just before I move onto Robert Austen (b ca1479) I have noted a possible conflict of burial sites for Matthew Austen. In his will he asked to be buried at Chilham. But in his widow's will 2 yrs later she asked to buried near him at Wye, where she was later interred. The Wye Parish burial registers have a record of Thomasine but NOT Matthew. Not a major problem for my purposes but I would like to be accurate. Do you have a source citation for Matthew's burial place? Without any other record one can argue for both Wye and Chilham, ie did his Exec carry out his wish or was Thomasine correct? No MIs at either of the two sites.

I noted that Matthew and Thomasine had amassed quite a family. I have recorded eight probably nine with good source citation, re:Tyler Index. But their early records were inconsistent with some baptisms not providing the given name of the father - with many Austens in and around adjacent parishes it makes it difficult to pigeon hole them. I also note that Tyler Index has a hiatus 1640-1660 (Civil War and Interregnum period) which doesn't help. Do you have a full verified list of their children?

I think I will hit this Austen line buffers with Robert (Richard's father) as records are becoming increasingly difficult to come by prior to 1538, unless MIs have survived and wills were written. Do you have a link to any will Robert may have produced?

Best regards
Terry

PS I am not my own cousin yet!

Hi Terry

I'll check my notes and get back to you. I think I have a record of Matthew's burial but I need to double check.

The Austens were involved in a lot of legal disputes in Chancery and I have looked at quite a few of these. Although they provide useful info about the family, they can also be very long documents and sometime tricky to read lol! The answer to a lot of the puzzles about the Austens are probably in these records.

Anyhow leave it with me and I will get back to you asap.

Matt

[thistlecatau]

Hello all,
I have been following this thread on and off for a long time and I have a suggestion to throw into the mix with regard to the Sheafe connection.

I have a marriage for Thomas Sheafe of Cranbrook and Sarah Sheppard. The marriage took place in West Peckham 17 Sep 1610. This marriage puts two people with the right names into the vicinity of Hadlow for the birth of an Elizabeth Sheafe in 1611, bap 21 July. This could well be the Elizabeth Sheafe that married Valentine Austen in 1634. The Wye death dates for Thomas the prisoner and Sarah the widow also fit this scenario.

Sarah Sheppard was the daughter of Alexander Sheppard and his first wife Elizabeth Covert as per County Genealogies for Sussex. Alexander's second wife was Ursula Knatchbull, a family that had long had links with the Sheafes in the Cranbrook area, bringing the story full circle.

I would certainly love some verification of my theory in the form of a handy will reference or some such gem, but it might be worth at least investigating this idea further.

Elizabeth