Henry Dryden's family

[BegClonrode ....]

I will list Henry and Louisa's children (in case that leads to some clues)

...
Alfred Ponsford (Died young) b. 3/12/1883 - d. 23/3/1884
...
Alfred Ponsford - b. 20/8/1890 - d. 11/12/1958

Hi again...

I suspect you already know the following but it hints at a family connection between your Henry and Thomas, second son of George and Margaret.

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The BDM NZ website has three listings for the birth of an Alfred Ponsford DRYDEN, one in 1878 and other two you've mentioned as sons of Henry and Louisa (1883 and 1890).

The parents of the first Alfred are Thomas DRYDEN and his wife, the former Mary McDonald CUDDIE.

1878/11972 - DRYDEN, Alfred Ponsford - mother: Mary McDonald  father: Thomas

Their marriage notice, which says second son of George, is here...

PapersPast - Otago Daily Times - 13 April 1872 - Page 2 - Marriage
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s4x/

Regards
Beg

[Thamesite2017]

So I'm unsure whether that newspaper article refers to my Henry or the other Henry.  It would've been helpful if  my Henry had a middle name.  I have come across "G" being his middle initial and he has a child called Henry George so there is that thought that Henry Snr might also be Henry George Dryden.

If this Family of George and Margaret do prove to be correct afterall
I am swayed that your HENRY is George..given you mention the George H
The parish registers on LDS only have the baptism for George and not a Henry (at least what I can see) again going via Scotlands people would be far more accurate. **Although trees have him dying in AUS??? there goes that theory**

I think at this stage we are resting on whether the actual Church record (of the household mariage) is more complete and names the parents Otherwise without proof it will only ever be speculation.

[Thamesite2017]

Well  Rubbish the above theory

1883 Wises Directory brothers George and Henry in Dunedin

Maybe worth tracking through these yearly directories
When do you first know for sure that your Henry is in Invercargill??
So we could see if we were possibly dealing with two different people

Bye
Althea

[BegClonrode ....]

...the really tricky thing is there is another Henry Dryden in NZ and he is roughly the same age.  It makes the research very awkward when I have to be constantly aware of the names of the other Henry's line.

So I'm unsure whether that newspaper article refers to my Henry or the other Henry.

father George (died 1894 Dunedin), mother Margaret Meikle
Grandfather John

Hi again...

The Henry DRYDEN living in Karori says he's the brother of George d.1894.

Evening Post - 29 September 1894 - Page 2
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s5b/

Possibly the same Henry as Janette mentioned earlier.

Evening Post - 2 February 1886 - Page 2
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s4w/

So my latest theory is that the two Henry's are uncle b.1843 and nephew b.1851

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The 1893 and 1896 electoral rolls list only the one Henry DRYDEN living in Karori. He is a clerk.

He is more likely than not the following Henry...

BDM NZ Marriages - 1880/2583 - Frances Sarah McREDIE to Henry DRYDEN

... because the 1893 and 1896 electoral rolls also list a Frances Sarah DRYDEN (married woman) of Craigelea House, Karori.

This may be his obituary...

Evening Post - 2 December 1918 - Page 4
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s5i/

He is buried at St Mary's Church cemetery.

Evening Post - 2 December 1918 - Page 2
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s5j/

This would be his corresponding listing on the BDM NZ website...

BDM NZ Deaths - 1918/11578 - DRYDEN, Henry - 75Y - d.o.d 30 Nov 1918

and possibly Archway. Maybe start a look-up thread?

http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22225799

And I think this is his wife's obituary...

Hawera & Normanby Star - 2 July 1921 - Page 4 - Personal Items
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s5h/

This would be her corresponding listing on the BDM NZ website

BDM NZ Deaths - 1921/4231 - DRYDEN, Frances Sarah - 74Y - d.o.d 30 Jun 1921

and Archway. Again, maybe start a look-up thread.

http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=23086374

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There is also a Zoe DRYDEN listed at the same address. Possibly the following...

BDM NZ Births - 1871/20320 - DRYDEN, Zoe - mother: Mary Ann  father: Henry

...who may well be the daughter of the couple you've already discounted...

BDM NZ Marriages - 1865/6164 - Mary Ann EAGLE to Henry DRYDEN

I can safely eliminate the Henry Dryden that was married to Mary Ann Eagle.  They are definitely not my line as they are buried in Wellington.

Where is the Wellington burial of Henry and Mary Ann née EAGLE that you mentioned. I could only find a Simon and Mary Ann DRYDEN on the Wellington cemetery website.

Evening Post - 21 May 1919 - Page 1
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s5e/

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If the 1894 newspaper notice is to be believed, this Henry is obviously part of the family. Maybe the informant for the 1937 death certificate of Henry DRYDEN has got things mixed-up (similar to how he/she gave the incorrect year of marriage)

I came across that piece the other day Janette but the really tricky thing is there is another Henry Dryden in NZ and he is roughly the same age.

What are the details of the other Henry that you've found

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I appreciate that none of the above helps you in finding when your g-g-grandfather Henry arrived, nor helps find a record of his birth. But it might explain the "Father: John" mentioned on his 1937 death certificate.

Out of interest, who was the informant.

Regards
Beg

[lindudes]

My mistake BegClonrode I'm getting confused between the Mary's and Henry's!  Mary Louisa and Henry Ernest (Henry being the son of Henry Dryden and Mary Ann Eagle) are buried/cremated in Wellington.

From the internet I have found information on what I believe to be the other Dryden family

Henry DRYDEN married Mary Ann EAGLE in NZ in 1865. He was from Scotland and she was from Poplar, West London
- Mary Ann died 28 March 1880 aged 35, leaving 5 children
- Henry remarried 14 August 1880 to Frances Sarah McCREDIE (1847-1921)

The 5 known children of Henry Dryden & Mary Ann Eagle:
1866 - 1958 Henry Ernest Dryden
- married Mary Braithwaite
1867 - 1949 Janet Hannah Dryden
- married Alexander Ramsay
1869 - 1953 Alice Mary Dryden
- married Wakeford Cox
1871 - ? Zoe Dryden
- married Percy Simpson
1875 - 1912 Lena Dryden
- Lena did not marry
- she died in Craigielea, Karori, Wellington after a long illness aged 37

Whereas my family is (for definite)

Henry G. Dryden - b. 1850's - d. 20/12/1937
Louisa Elizabeth Wilson -b. 29/7/1859 - d. 13/6/1935
They married 14/11/1879 in Dunedin

Annie Elizabeth - b. 19/11/1879 - d. 7/3/1945
- never married
Henry George - b. 14/12/1882 - d. 8/10/1947
- married Annie Ola Peters and Margaret Moffat
Alfred Ponsford - b. 3/12/1883 - d. 23/3/1884
- never married
Margaret Eva - b.14/5/1885 - d. 7/2/1960
- married Richard Bernard Fowler
Albert Edward - b. 22/10/1886 - d. 31/3/1945
- married Ellen Margaret Morris (a.k.a Eleanor, Lena)
Eleanor Muriel - b. 13/10/1888 - d. 28/11/1918
- never married
Alfred Ponsford - b. 20/8/1890 - d. 11/12/1958
- married Agnes Orr Stephens

I went to the funeral home today and got a printout of what they had on file unfortunately nothing to add.  They also had Henry's mothers name listed as unknown.  They had he was 86 when he died and had spent 75 years in NZ which for me is a guideline and not something I will accept as absolute.

Please bear with me as I trawl through the responses so far as there have been more than I ever expected (which is awesome).  I'm determined to get to the bottom of this mystery

PS: there seems to be no informant on the death printout of who provided the information so I am also considering that 'whoever' provided it may have got confused and John was not the father instead was the grandfather...

[lindudes]

Okay I now have another theory!  Lol, totally unproven but a theory nonetheless.

Say John is Henry's father (as per death printout).

Then his parents would actually be John Dryden and Janet Riddell

So far for that family I have:

Thomas -  b.1822
George - b. 1824, d. 29/9/1894
Agnes - b. 1827
Michael - b. 1829
John - b. 1834
William - b. 1836
David - b. 1839

Henry being the baby of that family?

This would fit with the links you guys have provided. 

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP18940929.2.10&srpos=2&e=27-09-1894-06-10-1894--100--1-byDA---2dryden--

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP18860202.2.8&srpos=23&e=-------100--1-byDA---2henry%20dryden--

So Henry is mentioned as being the brother of both George and John.  And in the Wises directory and electoral roles there is George, Henry and William living in Dunedin. So I'm thinking the William b. 1836 is actually named William Thomas. 

This is seeming quite plausible because all the names fit.  Also I know they had large families in those days.  So maybe Janet Riddell had her first child quite young - maybe 18 or 19? And when she was around late 40's she had the baby Henry?  Originally I thought he would've been born about 1851.  With him dying in 1937 aged 86 it would put his birth as being that year. 

Just a theory.  Anyone else think it might be plausible?  I will have another look on ancestry and try and look at Scottish census's tomorrow.

[BegClonrode ....]

Hi again...

Saw the following tree on FamilySearch. I think it's for Henry of Karori.

Unsourced and unverified so grain of salt.

Wonder where the birth date came from.

Henry DRYDEN 1841-1918
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M7KP-TGF

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The 1893 and 1896 electoral rolls both mention a Henry DRYDEN (butcher) in Invercargill and a Henry DRYDEN (clerk) in Karori. I still think it's possible that your g-g-grandfather was born c.1851 and was one of the six DRYDEN children who came over on the Jura (1858)

Having said that, your Henry (1851-1937) has yet to be found on Scotlands People or the 1851 Scottish census or FamilySearch. So it's not worth committing to anything. I reckon keep the theories coming.

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Is there a chance that, except for the same surname, your Henry is not even related to George DRYDEN and Margaret MEIKLE.

I don't suppose you've seen the death certificate for George d.1894 or his wife Margaret d.1905

The death certificate will mention the number of living children. You might be able to work out whether or not it's possible that your Henry was their child.

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Althea's earlier mention of a twin is worth another look. Must find where that came from.

Also it may pay to view the actual 1851 baptism register for George, as well as the previous/next entry. If George and Henry are twins you would expect them to be baptised on the same day. Possibly they are mentioned on the same register entry but only George's name was transcribed. I'd guess Scotlands People is the place to look.


Regards
Beg

[Thamesite2017]

Beg
the trees at ancestry have the George and Henry born same year
Of course could have been start and finish and not twins idea

Bye
Althea

[BegClonrode ....]

Hi Althea,

Thanks for that :-)

So when the father George dies in 1894 there should be two 48 year old living male issue mentioned on his death certificate i.e George Jnr. and Henry. Or possibly one 48 year old male (George Jnr.) and one 47 year old male (Henry).

Then in 1899 George Jnr. dies in a mine accident in Australia.

Otago Daily Times - 2 December 1899 - Page 4 - Deaths
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s60/

Then in 1905 the mother Margaret dies. So now there should be no mention of George Jnr. on her death certificate, only the one living male issue (Henry) who is, by this time, aged 53.

A shame it would cost $40 to find out :-)

Even more of a shame that NZ doesn't supply names of the children on the death certificate, only the age and sex, as knowing age and sex still doesn't mean it's Henry the butcher....

....unless of course there is only one 48 year old male on the father's 1894 death certificate (George Jnr.) and no sign of a 53 year old male on the mother's 1905 death certificate...in which case Henry wasn't their son :-)

Regards
Beg