Author Topic: Morfa Bychan 1880  (Read 3416 times)

Offline JDJames89

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Morfa Bychan 1880
« on: Wednesday 28 November 12 01:22 GMT (UK) »
I'm looking for a birth or marriage information for an Ann "Annie" Emrys who, according to the 1911 Census, was born in Morfa Bychan in about 1880. She married a man named John Jones (born about 1869 in Pentre) around 1905/6 and moved to London shortly afterwards. Any help would be appreciated.

Offline nestagj

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 10:39 GMT (UK) »
Hello - have found  her on the 1911 with  husband and children but have tried different variations on the previous' census. Nor can I see a marriage easily in Pentre; How sure are you that Emrys is the maiden name I can see it as a second name on one of the children but of course its just too early for the indexes to give the mother's maiden name -  do you have a copy of  her marriage certificate; that should give a father's name or maybe a copy of one of the children's birth certs. 
Nesta

Offline cath151

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 13:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
There is a marriage at Wandsworth St.Ann
10 July 1905
John Jones 36 Bach  Dairyman      father Daniel Jones(deceased)  Miner
Annie Jones 26 Spins                    father David Jones   Miner

Resident 2, Salisbury Road.

Witnesses William Jones, J.Jones, Mary C Jones and one unreadable.

Occupation of John and ages match

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline despair

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 15:34 GMT (UK) »
This looks like that pairing in 1901(together with an Emrys Jones)

1901  444  149  20

and the brothers(?) family previously:-

1891  4423  98  5

1881  5302  71  61

and,speculatively,David,Mary C and Annie in 1891

1891  4647  4  1

Regards
Roger


Offline despair

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 18:46 GMT (UK) »
More speculation-with the pair identified,could John have died and Annie then married the brother Emrys,then being referred to as "Annie Emrys"?

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 20:46 GMT (UK) »
The David,Mary C,Ann(i)e family in 1881 is at

1881 5554  57 30  (Ynys Cynhaiarn)
The occupants are given as born "Celynin"
I cannot find a current direct equivalent of the address(vaguely like Henardd) but on the original forms it is near extant addresses in the Morfa Bychan area such as Penrhiw,Moelfra and others.

Regards
Roger

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 21:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi
 First post does not make it clear which Morfa Bychan is referred to - there's more than one in Wales. Have researched a lot on Morfa Bychan near Porthmadog, and can trace my family there back over 250 years.
Can you, JDJames89, supply what information you are absolutely sure of, either publicly or by PM. Can you quote the reference of 1911 Census info in the form County> parish   ... etc.
Referring to existing replies:
A member of a family that I'm researching, who moved to Porthmadog early 1850s, was born 'Celynnin', and in this case it refers to part of the parish of Llangelynnin, Merionethshire (the other side of the Mawddach estuary to Barmouth).
Emyr

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 22:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Re CATH151's reply :
1881 census - Morfa Bychan, Porthmadog:
David Jones 43 Head Quarryman
Mary Jones 32  Wife
William Jones 18 Son Quarryman
Margrate Jones 9 Dau. Scholar
David Jones 7 Son Scholar
Lizzie Jones 5 Dau. Scholar
Mary C Jones 3 Dau.
Anne Jones 1 Dau.

Emyr

Offline JDJames89

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Re: Morfa Bychan 1880
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 November 12 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, guys, for the leads. I’m still sorting through the stuff you all posted.

Sorry about that, I didn’t know there was more than one Morfa Bychan.  The 1911 census lists Annie’s birth place as “Morfa Bychan, Caernarvonshire”. John’s is listed as “Pentre, Glamorgan.” The son “John Emrys Jones” on the 1911 census is Rev. John Emrys-Jones. Not sure when it started, but he didn’t use Emrys as a middle name but part of a double-barrelled surname his wife adopted and his children inherited.  He is listed as “John Emrys-Jones” and his wife as “Helen Marise Emrys-Jones” in the England & Wales Death Index. His children are still alive.

I don’t know if Ceridwen ever used the surname Emrys-Jones legally though. In the England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 for her first marriage to a man named Kenneth L’esty, she is listed as “Ceridwen” under the section for the surname Jones. She was still Lesty when she came to America in 1947, but her second marriage shortly after her arrival lists her parents as “John Jones” and “Ann Jones” (note this spot is supposed to list the mother’s maiden name). Her American death certificate lists her parents as “John Emrys” and “Ann Jones”, but I think this was a mistake. Double-barrelled names were not very common at all in America and I just figured this was a clerical error. Ceridwen’s obituary lists her parents as John and Ann Emrys Jones if I recall correctly (no hyphen).  Both John and Ceridwen’s sons recall the grandparents as “John and Ann Jones”I believe they lived again in Pentre during at least the 1940s. Neither one died until sometime after the 40s.

There is something strange to the whole mess, however, as nobody’s really been able to track down anything further about John and Ann at all, so I am beginning to wonder if the surnames were actually switched or something? Maybe it was John Emrys and Ann Jones? Or maybe they were both Jones and the Emrys bit came in somehow else. The 1905 Wandsworth marriage is really interesting because the note I have saved from the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 for Ceridwen indicates she was born in Wandsworth in 1907.