McArthurs ,Skipness &Kilcalmonell- 1868 letter

[cinechay1]

Hi All,

I'm a descendant of arch McArthur & Catherine Gilchrist listed
in the OPR's for Claonaig, Skipness farms.

Hector McArthur m. Meran Carmichal, 18 Mar 1814,Culindrach
Duncan McArthur & Margaret McVannel, 1801 Kilcalmonell
McArthure, Donald, Skipness Parish, McCalllum, Barbra, Carradal Parish, 14 Dec 1807
McArthure, Alexr, Skipness Parish, Murray, Katy, Skipness Parish, 25 Dec 1808
Archibald McArthur & Catherine Gilchrist, 1804 Kilcalmonell
Jean McArthur & Duncan McVannel, abt1800

I do know that Archibald is a sister of Jean who married Duncan McVannel & feel that
most of the other McA's are siblings; however, there's that lack of parentage thing.

In addition I have a letter from scotland to Canada transcribed & attached . A shortage of punctuation makes the family details somewhat convoluted.

If anyone recognizes this family or has some insight into the parentage I'd appreciate suggestions/revelations.

Thanks  Ian

[MonicaL]

Hi Ian

Welcome to RootsChat 

Just to clarify, as it can be confusing sometimes with new info for people (I know you have it very clear in your head!).

You are trying to establish possible parents for Archibald McArthur who married Catherine Gilchrist in April 1804?

The listing above that you show, are McArthur marriage where possibly those named are siblings to your Archibald.

Your Archibald and Catherine had at least the following children showing here www.rootschat.com/links/0seg/  Likely missing more from their early married years from 1804 (these can be important for naming clues relating to grandparents). Also added in italics are those I have seen elsewhere noted:

Alexander 1805
Peter 1810
John 1812
Donald 1815
Kathrin 1817
Duncan 1819
Jean 1821
Archibald 1823
Mary 1823
Angus 1829

A good summary here from entries in the OPRs www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sctcskip/farms/claonaig.txt

You are going to hit some buffers going back in the Old Parish Register entries. From here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyArgyll.htm#S you can see when the birth/christenings and marriage registers start for the parish of Saddell And Skipness.

With so many of the children's christenings recorded, have you checked any to see what names show as sponsors (very often these will be family members)?

Monica 

[MonicaL]

You mention that you are confident that Jean McArthur who married Duncan mcVennel was a sister to Archibald. The family show here http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/u/n/Sherrie-L-Hunt/GENE4-0001.html

Also, Hector McArthur and some of his children following his 1814 marriage:

Hector McArthur m. Meran Carmichal, 18 Mar 1814, source OPR, p. 160
Ann, bap. 24 Dec 1815, source OPR, p. 139
Peter, bap. 11 Oct 1817, source OPR, p. 144
Kathrin, bap. 8 Jan 1820, source OPR, p. 150 & p. 1
John & Marrion, bap. 12 Mar 1822, source OPR, p. 4
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sctcskip/farms/culindrach.txt

The name Peter and twins seem to feature!

Peter also seems to feature in the children's names of Duncan McArthur & Margaret McVinnel (also included in the link above from Rootsweb).

Adding to possible McArthur leads for Archibald is the family of Ann McArthur and Archibald Taylor who married in 1814 in Skipness www.barge.ca/public/gp1239.htm  They also look to have headed off to Ontario c.1828 http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.scotland.arl.general/376/mb.ashx

Monica

[MonicaL]

Ian, this letter from 1868 that you have attached, who was the recipient over in Canada? Just helps with trying to understand what the relationships were when referred to in the text.

Just started to go through the letter. The reference to 30 years since the McArthur family (recipients of the letter) left Scotland, therefore, around 1838 and before the first Scottish census? Actually, Peter who wrote the letter refers to the recipient as Peter at the end.

I am going through the letter in sections, with the names (like a chess game sometimes, hoping it connects to something at some point  ):

The letter is from a Peter at Bruilan in 1868
1861 Census:
Peter McArthur, 52, Farmer Of 50 Acres b. Islay
Address: 2 Bruilan, Skipness

sister Margaret is Married to John Cook and has Four sons and three daughters 
1871 Census:
John Cook 60, Farmer 60 A 20 Arable
Margaret Cook 58
Neil Cook 21
Margaret Cook 12 (maybe who helped Peter write his letter to Peter in Canada?)
Address: Brulam Farm

Their children show here www.rootschat.com/links/0sen/

John is Still School master in Clonaig And has one son and two daughter of a Family.
1861 Census:
John McArthur 40, schoolmaster b. Skipness
Mary McArthur 32 b. Glasgow
Mary McArthur 10 Months
Address: 4 Clonaig School House, Skipness

I think John's wife may likely be a Mary Robertson https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTYX-CHQ. Children show here www.rootschat.com/links/0seo/

Brother John is still in Carradale He keeps a grocery shop post office and telegraph office

There is a Will & Testament entry on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which states:
John MacArthur, 10 Oct 1887. General Grocer, Carradale, United Parish of Saddell and Skipness, d. 20 Oct. 1884 at Carradale, intestate. Inventory. Dunoon Sheriff Court.

A breather to clear my head a bit....

[MonicaL]

Margaret Cook/McArthur provides a good lead...

Her death details here www.myainfolk.ca/records/show/4121 (John, husband's here www.myainfolk.ca/records/show/11496 ).

So, she does look to connect well, as a daughter of Duncan McArthur and Margaret McVannel.

From the earlier link www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sctcskip/farms/claonaig.txt:

Duncan McArthur & Margaret McVinnel
  Nancy, bap 19 Feb 1804, source OPR p. 113
Duncan McArthure & Pegy McFannal
  John, bap 17 Jun 1806, source OPR p. 120
  Peter, bap 26 Feb 1808, source OPR p. 123...who wrote the letter in 1868
Duncan McArthur & Margaret McVanal
  Jean, bap 29 Jul 1810, source OPR p. 128
  Margarat, bap 28 Mar 1813, source OPR p. 133 <no location given>...who married John Cook
Duncan McArthur & Mary McVanal
  Chirstin, bap 13 Feb 1815, source OPR p. 137

Peter with parents in 1851 in Tarbert, Kilcalmonell and Kilberry:

Duncan Mcarthur 80, retired farmer
Margaret Mcarthur 75
Peter Mcarthur 40
Andrew McVernel 67, visitor b. Kilcalmonell, argyle

We had the 1861 census entry for Peter already above. This is him in 1871:

Peter McArthur 63, Farmer 20 Acres
Ann Cook 25, niece and housekeeper
Christina Walker 56
Address: Brularn, Skipness

[MonicaL]

For all the effort, Ian...I have failed to find concrete proof of parents' names for the generation who married in Skipness around the turn of the century into the 1800s 

From what I can see in the 1841 census, I am not sure who of the men were still alive then. Duncan was, with wife Margaret, but...can't see him dying after 1855 and the start of Scottish Statutory Registration though, so likely he may have died 1851-54  .

I think this might be Barbara (a widow by now?), wife of Donald in 1841, as transcribed:

Barbra  Mcarthur 60, independent
Nancy Mcarthur 25
Neaps  Mcarthur 22
Archibald  Mcarthur 21, fisher
John  Mcarthur 17, fisher
Address: Farm Of Auchanbheatha, Skipness

I like guessing though sometimes (when frustrated  ) so I am going to do that now. We have quite a lot of names so far of children who we think might be cousins from those Skipness marriages.

Peter shouts loud and clear (early on naming and frequent across the families) so I would work further on that as a possible name for father. The name for mother that is coming across is possibly Nancy/Ann. Nancy/Ann/Agnes are common variants of each other - see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=ann

From the earlier link, you will see that the marriage old parish registers for Skipness didn't start until the end of the 1700s which might cause a headache.

[cinechay1]

Hi Monica,

Thanks for the welcome & reply.

I've spent more than 10 years on this ,looking at naming conventions & being frustrated by the fact that all my Skipness McA forbears as well as the ones from next door in Kilcalmonell seem to recycle the same names.

In ans. to your 1st post re: the 10 listed children of Arch McA & Cath Gilchrist.(their children also reused the same given names)

Of these  Peter, John, Kathrin, Duncan,Jean & Archibald all
emigrated to Ontario with their mother in abt. 1840. Father
Archibald didn`t & it`s unknown whether he was still alive.

Son Peter b.1809 was the recipient of the letter.

I`m in son Duncan`s(1819) line

As far as I know, Alex,Donald.Mary & Angus did not emigrate.
The idea of looking for christening sponsors hadn`t occured to me.
========
Of father Archibald`s sibling Jean, she married Duncan McVannel(b.abt.1774 -1837)Lemnamuick Kilcalmonell.
3 of their sons involved in a lawsuit in 1848, the same year
they emigrated to Canada.
SC50 Campbeltown Sheriff Court 1776-1979
relates to sale of 50 Kintyre bolls of potatoes and the doubling of the price of potatoes.
============
On your comments on the letter, thanks for the census info.
Confirmed John& Mary Robertson.
http://www.myainfolk.ca/records/show/7648
Death for Archibald McArthur
Name:Archibald McArthur
Death:1866 Dec 24
Place:Clonaig
Age:7 Days
Gender:M
Status:Single
Father's name:John McArthur
Father's occupation:School Master
Mother's name:Mary Robertson
Spouse's name:Infant Death
Death cause:Unknown, 5 Days
Death informant:John McArthur (Father)
Death registration:December 25, 1866 at Clonaig

John in Carradale- I`ll check on the estate file with Scotlands people.

This all has given me a lot to chew on.
I`m going to check out more of the Kilcakmonell bunch as the McA`s continued to intermarry with them in Canada.
Thanks again Monica
Ian

[janetsterling]

Hello Ian,
I have an identical copy of the 1868 Letter (although I believe it is perhaps 1895) in my possession.
My brother John McArthur (*) was spent many hours analyzing it as well, as did my father, the late Ian S. Mcarthur, grandson of the Peter (b.1809) who received the letter.

In looking for Archibald's parents, I believed that the firstborn son was named after his grandfather on the father's side which would make me think it would be Alexander. Peter was Archibald's father-in-law's name and thus is the name of the second born, Peter b. 1809.
 I found a few possibilities on Scotland's People which I can sent you if i have an updated email.
you can email me at * I have a good chart of the Skipness mcArthur's  done by Susan McKellar, a cousin of mine that I can sent you. Please feel free to contact my brother or myself. Janet

I should add that my family tree McArthur-Sheldon is on Ancestry now. I also believe that Arcibald and Katy's firstborn daughter was Marion b. 1806,( Family History Centre microfilm # 1040076) which should help in narrowing Archibald's mother's name. What do do not know is where Archibald was born. 
^(*)

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[ammartin53]

Hello contributors

Is there any way the date on the letter from Peter McArthur referred to above could be 1873 instead of 1868? The reason I think this - as a descendant in Scotland of Duncan McArthur & Margaret McVannel (they were my 3x great-grandparents) the information given above was of great interest and I have been doing some research on the Scottish McArthurs. As part of that I found that the death of Malcolm McPhail who is referred to in the letter as having passed away last summer, was in fact in 1872. That is as stated on his death certificate obtained from Scotland's People. On the other hand the latest date of the letter must be 1874 as it talks about sister Janet and her husband Neil Walker as being in Scotland - it is known that they emigrated to Canada in 1874.

Anne