Author Topic: question please regarding census.loveridge  (Read 17783 times)

Offline king otg

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 January 13 11:35 GMT (UK) »

Many LOVERIDGEs can be traced back to Towcester to which William and Margaret also belonged. The origins of Alfred LOVERIDGE are unclear but the following could be Elizabeth’s baptism (followed by her father’s) since the 1871BDF census shows that her maiden surname was LOVERIDGE:

BDF Haynes bp17/5/1835 Elizabeth Lydia d/o Lemuel/Fanny LOVERIDGE, trav’g with smallware, of Towcester NTS

BDF Steppingley bp15/4/1810 (b12/4) Lemuel s/o Henry/Ann LOVERIDGE, travs

The three baptisms in 1877 at Milton Bryant BDF show that Alfred and Comfort were closely associated with John and Angelina LOVERIDGE

BDF Milton Bryant bp15/7/1877 (b6/2/1875) William s/o John/Angelina LOVERIDGE, Gipsies
BDF Milton Bryant bp15/7/1877 (b8/7) Alfred s/o John/Angelina LOVERIDGE, Gipsy
BDF Milton Bryant bp15/7/1877 (b26/12/1875) William s/o Alfred/Comfort PARKER Gipsy

A possible baptism for the above John includes a mistake in that the mother’s name should read ‘Esther’:

BRK(nowOX) Hanney bp8/6/1861 John s/o Matthew/Ellen LOVERIDGE, trav tinman & brazier of West Hanney

Mathew and Esther LOVERIDGE had several children baptised in BRK and OX so Thomas’s claim to be born in Reading [1891SFK] may be useful. There is a Thomas of the right age who says he was born in OX about 1846 [see Chippenham WIL1871] which is a good indicator of where he belongs although he cannot definitely be attributed to Matthew and Esther. The likelihood that Alfred or Thomas may have employed a variety of forenames is supported by the baptism of Rosina in 1882 at Little Missenden BKM where her father is given as Charles.

The Alfred LOVERIDGE who partnered Comfort PARKER does not look as if he was the same Alfred who was the son of Montague GREY and Elizabeth LOVERIDGE but the possibility that his parents included him in their census returns during his absence cannot yet be ruled out.

TL

Offline king otg

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 12 January 13 10:36 GMT (UK) »

In reply to a PM,

Although perhaps not as closely related as previously thought, the four LOVERIDGE siblings preceding Montague and Elizabeth in 1871BDF would seem to be first cousins of Elizabeth being children of Lemuel’s brother, Hammoleketh, who is abbreivated to Hookey on Lavinia’s marriage certificate.

These are all LOVERIDGEs buried at St Neots in Hunts. Almost all have either a LOVERIDGE or a PARKER as their mother. Noah LOVERIDGE has also been buried there since 2000.

HUN St Neots Cemetery d24/2/1960 (86) John
HUN St Neots Cemetery d8/12/1965 (90) Maria (same Gr as John)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d16/7/1969 (14) Sylvia (b25/2/1955) [mo: LOVERIDGE]
HUN St Neots Cemetery d4/8/1971 (75) Nancy (b Dec 1896) (same Gr as Charles)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d14/7/1979 (84) Charles (b7/3/1895)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d23/1/1983 (65) Phoebe (b4/6/1917)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d21/5/1985 (66) Bob (bDecQtr1919) [mo: PARKER]
HUN St Neots Cemetery d3/10/1988 (66) Ada (b1922) (same Gr as Bob)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d24/5/1988 (73) Nelson (b9/4/1915) [mo: PARKER]
HUN St Neots Cemetery d3/7/1989 (89) John (b1900)
HUN St Neots Cemetery d10/1/2000 (85) Jim (b3/5/1914) [mo: LOVERIDGE]

At 1841GLO-0350/14//15/7 is the family of Henry and Esther LOVERIDGE living at Taynton.

The following baptisms refer to the same parents although Henry was a SMITH and Esther (snr) a LOVERIDGE:

GLO Taynton bp2/8/1840 Hester Ann d/o Henry/Hester LOVERIDGE, hkr of T

WKS Ilmington St Nicholas bp4/6/1843 George s/o Henry/Esther, hkr of Taynton (GLO) [LOVEREDGE sic]

In 1881BKM-1476/16/25 is Sampson SMITH (34) born Wavendon BKM

In 1861BKM-1006/116/1 [repeated at 1006/128/18] there is an Israel DRAPER (25) born Woburn BDF married to Naomi. Recorded below Israel is an unnamed male child, surname SMITH, age 10 with his 20 year old sister, the son and daughter of a SMITH male (48) who was, I suspect, Henry SMITH, father of all the children in the same schedule. One of his children (baptised 15 February 1846 at Wavendon BKM) is the same as the Sampson in the 1881BKM census entry referred to above. Another, the 20 year old female, is probably Hester Ann (baptism shown above) and the 10 year old male is of the right age to be Alfred.

Another son, George, was then at 1871GLO-2572/28/14 with his wife, Sabina Ruth STEVENS. This branch is well known because their daughter, Anselina, with her husband Singi BUCKLAND, appears in a photograph opposite page 40 in JGLS(3)39 and is identified on page 36 of the same issue.

The mother of the family in 1861BKM, Esther SMITH, misleadingly looks as if she is the wife of William LEACH because of the way the information is set out but she is called a ‘travelling brazier’s wife’ which is the occupation of the 48 year old man (Henry) listed on the same page.

Alfred LOVER, his wife Comfort and their two eldest children, are linked to the above family because of their neighbourly relationship with Nelson and Naomi PARKER at:

1871BKM-1409/61/32 Nelson (35) trav’g tinker, Naomi (32) +5 (same at: 1871BKM-1410/53/23)

If Naomi’s age is correctly given, she should appear in 1841GLO but she does not (unless she has changed her name) but Esther (jnr) is in the correct spot. Naomi (1871BKM) is the same woman within the Esther SMITH family of 1861BKM. The difference is that Israel DRAPER is now called Nelson PARKER [see below]. Naomi’s daughter, Isabella, is 12 in 1871 (1 in 1861)

BKM Grendon Underwood bp11/9/1859 Isabella d/o Israel/Naomi DRAPER, ch.btr of G

BKM Bow Brickhill bp28/10/1834 Israel s/o Nelson/Esther DRAPER, gipsies

BKM Hambledon bp21/1/1827 (b9/1) Nelson s/o Spencer/Elizabeth DRAPER, gypsey

Although the above Nelson DRAPER, first cousin of Israel, has a good claim to have replaced him by 1871 I do not think he did. Israel changed his name to Nelson PARKER. His baptism is closer to the age given in the 1861 and 1871 censuses. His age advances by ten years from 1861 to 1871 and his daughter confirms that he was her father at her wedding (see below).

In the following it can be assumed that Lemontina and Comfort were two sisters, daughters of Naomi, where the alternative surnames, DRAPER and PARKER, could have derived just as much from Israel’s decision to change his name as it could from the husband she married three weeks later. Comfort is 4 in the 1871BKM extract while Lemontina is 1 in the following:

1881BKM-1471/22/37 Nelson (35) trav’g tinker or Gipsy, Naomi (35) +6

BKM Beachampton bp30/11/1898 Violet May d/o John/Comfort WELCH, trav’g tinker, no home

BKM Beachampton bp30/11/1898 James s/o Lemontina DRAPER (or PARKER) [sic], unmarried, trav’g

BKM Beachampton m19/12/1898 Leonard PARKER (full) tinker (fa: blank) = Lemontina DRAPER (full) (fa: Israel – grinder)

None of the above conclusively proves that Alfred LOVERIDGE was the son of Henry & Esther but he was closely connected to Naomi who was recorded as a daughter of Esther in 1861.

TL

Offline peggysmum

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 12 January 13 17:07 GMT (UK) »
hi king, thankyou very much for all this info, a few things what you have i had got in my papers but not associated with alfred, like the 61 census entry of the smiths, strange to think ive been looking at that for months and it could possibly be alf. so correct me if im wrong but im reading this as you think that my alfred may actually be the brother of naomi smith, so he should be a smith then not a loveridge, i suppose he changed his name to loveridge after his mother, so if esther smith is his mum and she is the daughter of henry loveridge and ann is that right.  so from this then the alfred with montague grey is not my alfred.  also the nelson parker bn 1915 died 1988 could be the nelson who reported my great grandad william ellis aka steven parkers death in 1935, he describes himself on the death cert as brother in law. i wander who his parents might be and how they are connected.
thanks again for this info it does give me a lot more infomation and ideas of where to look next. im not finding this easy as im sure you can imagine., but i guess one day i may discover the truth. do you know anything about israel and eliza loveridge at all.
thankyou tracey
waters/walters-berkshire
tanner and adby- berkshire
loveridge and parker romanies from suffolk,essex,beds,bucks and herts
gill- derbyshire
turvills-hinks,leicestershire
calladine and Bostock,pot hawkers-Derbyshire

Offline peggysmum

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 10 February 13 09:42 GMT (UK) »

HUN St Neots Cemetery d24/5/1988 (73) Nelson (b9/4/1915) [mo: PARKER]

[/quote]
have just got the birth cert for nelson (above) and discovered he is another great great uncle.
his father is shown as israel loveridge and mum eliza loveridge formerly parker.
i am very excited to find him, i just wander if there where any more children born after the 11 census. so eliza was a parker should have guessed that really as they seem to stick with the same families. ive had a loof for possible eliza parker births in beds and have 3 possibles,
an eliza loveridge parker bn j/s 1872 in the bedford district
eliza parker bn o/d 1872 ampthill district
and a eliza parker bn o/d 1869 biggleswade district. but ofcourse she could have been born outside beds but she does say on the 2 census records ive got her on with israel 01 and 11 (dont have her anywhere else) that she was bn in cranfield beds. she also says she is from cranfield on lavinia my great gran's baptisim record. she really isint make life easy.
thanks tracey
waters/walters-berkshire
tanner and adby- berkshire
loveridge and parker romanies from suffolk,essex,beds,bucks and herts
gill- derbyshire
turvills-hinks,leicestershire
calladine and Bostock,pot hawkers-Derbyshire


Offline genac

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 08 March 14 21:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello Peggysmum

This information maybe of no help to you and it also maybe just be a strange coincidence but - my great grandfather was known as Montague or Joseph Gray of a gypsy family. Sadly I know very little of him, as my mum has now passed away, but he was a wicker chair mender and had worked as a handy man at a Church in Melton Mowbray Leicestershire.   My Grandfather was Montague Gray JR who was born in 1884, he married my Grandmother Alberta Bramley (none Gypsy) in 1913 and he died in 1950.  My mum told me that her Grandfather died in Melton Mowbery Market and I guess that he would have been buried in that area. My Grandfather Monty had a number of brothers but I can only recall my mum telling me of the name - Claude.  I have my Grandfathers and Mothers wedding certificate and it was witnessed by a Charles Gray and Catherine Gray.  Catherine was unable to write her own name and so sighed with a cross as did Montague my Grandfather.
Genac

Offline king otg

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 11 March 14 12:31 GMT (UK) »
Do you require further information?

Were Montague and Alberta married at Melton Mowbray?

TL

Offline lindasharrett

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 23 August 15 15:35 BST (UK) »
Hello Peggysmum

This information maybe of no help to you and it also maybe just be a strange coincidence but - my great grandfather was known as Montague or Joseph Gray of a gypsy family. Sadly I know very little of him, as my mum has now passed away, but he was a wicker chair mender and had worked as a handy man at a Church in Melton Mowbray Leicestershire.   My Grandfather was Montague Gray JR who was born in 1884, he married my Grandmother Alberta Bramley (none Gypsy) in 1913 and he died in 1950.  My mum told me that her Grandfather died in Melton Mowbery Market and I guess that he would have been buried in that area. My Grandfather Monty had a number of brothers but I can only recall my mum telling me of the name - Claude.  I have my Grandfathers and Mothers wedding certificate and it was witnessed by a Charles Gray and Catherine Gray.  Catherine was unable to write her own name and so sighed with a cross as did Montague my Grandfather.
Genac
I hope you can help me please. I am searching for Montague Gray(1880) married Alberta Bramley. for my nephew Adam who is his Gt.Grandson. we can find the marriage from 1913  Oct — Age: 33, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire.
& then I found your post, it must be the same family.
Please Have you any more information to share with us ?
regards Linda
Billam - Eckington Derbyshire.
Goold - Somerset & Nottinghamshire.
Antcliffe - Eckington Derbyshire
Price - Eckington & Shirebrook
Wyatt - Bulwell, Nottingham
Hall - Eckington & Barlborough, Derbyshire
Moxon - Eckington
Bullars - Rosliston, Shirebrook
Pearce - Monkton combe & Radstock,Somerset
Smith - Bulwell, Nottingham

Offline peggysmum

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #16 on: Monday 24 August 15 14:55 BST (UK) »
Hi linda do you mean me or genac. I have told you all I have so far on monty. I will keep working on them. My next plan is too look for Alfred birth as Alfred smith. There must be information on the family prior to the 71 census other than despair and Alfred baptisms as Smith's. Wish I could get to Cambridgeshire to look in there archives.
waters/walters-berkshire
tanner and adby- berkshire
loveridge and parker romanies from suffolk,essex,beds,bucks and herts
gill- derbyshire
turvills-hinks,leicestershire
calladine and Bostock,pot hawkers-Derbyshire

Offline Daffodilica

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Re: question please regarding census.loveridge
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 06 November 16 22:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Linda and Genac - I just found your posts, and I think your Montague/Monty is the brother of my gggrandad, Charles Gray, who was married to Catherine. It seems likely, given the witnesses to your Monty's wedding were Charles and Catherine. I'd be interested to know if you think they link? Catherine died in Rugby, Warks in 1970 - I can give you more info on the family if it helps?