Author Topic: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!  (Read 3944 times)

Offline DavidJP

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 12 January 13 20:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi Maureen,

If memory serves me right, it's 9.25 from the GRO & 10 from the local register office. I will order Mary's death cert just as soon as i can afford to do so.

Many thanks for all your help!

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

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Offline clogdancer

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 13 January 13 15:52 GMT (UK) »
I have an Annie Doyle c1874 from Ancoats who married John Grace also from Ancoats. Annie's father was called James Doyle. Do you think there may be any connection with your family.

Clogdancer

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Offline DavidJP

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 13 January 13 16:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Clogdancer,

Unfortunately i don't think there is a connection. My 3x gt grandparents John T Doyle & Margaret Wood had their children between 1848 & 1865. Margaret died in 1865 & although John T remarried in 1870, there was no issue resulting of this second marriage. John T Doyle's father was also John Doyle.

John T Doyle did have a son named James but born 1863. James married Ellen Hagan in 1888.

So as far as i can tell, there is no connection, but if anything changes i'll let you know!

Best of luck with your research.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline papooski

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 13 May 15 17:54 BST (UK) »
Hello, I'm not sure if this will help but I think I have some missing pieces. My line is the Stringer line. My grandmother's mother was Mary Ann Stringer (b. 1843Sheffield). Her parents were Henry and Caroline Stringer (b.1822 Sheffield). Henry died prior to 1868 (don't have exact date).I know this because it is listed on Mary Ann's marriage cert (m.Joseph Gibson). It also states that they lived at 24 Fortune Street. Now having said that, our grandmother told us that Mary Ann had a step mother whose name was Patsy Doyle. I don't think this is coincidence especially with the names and address being the same written in your request but I don't see a Patsy listed in all your names. It would make sense that Caroline remarried since Henry died 1868 and you have a Caroline Stringer married John Doyle in 1870. Could it be that someone had that messed up in our tree?? Perhaps my great grandmother had a step father not a step mother. I just can't figure out the name "Patsy". The following are the children that I have on our tree for Caroline: Mary Ann 1843, Emilia 44, Mary Ann b.1847, Sarah1850, Joseph1853, Edwin 1856 and Henrietta1859. Not sure why there a two Mary Ann's. As a side note, I believe the Stringer's were Anglican and that's why you couldn't find them in a catholic church. Let me know if this helps and also if you have a date for Caroline's death. We do not have any death dates for her or her first husband. I just read MaureeninNY and she is correct. I'm so glad you posted because it gave my family a window into the Doyle side. Many thanks, Paula

Offline DavidJP

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 13 May 15 20:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Paula,

A very warm welcome to Rootschat!

Its wonderful to hear from you. Your information definitely clears things up a little bit.

So lets set things out so that we can see clearly whats what & whose children are who's!

John Doyle married Margaret Doyle in 1848 in  St Mary's Catholic Chapel, Manchester & had the following children, that I know of so far:

Mary b1848/49 d1853?
Margaret Jane b1850 d1916 Married Thomas Gibson (My gt gt grandparents)
Mathilda b1856 d1934 Married (1) John Richard Morgan & (2) John Ryan
Elizabeth b1857 d? Married Frederick Atkin
Nicholas b1859 d1931 Married Sarah Jane Shepley
James b1863 d? Married Ellen Hagan
Agnes b1865 d? Married Albert Eaton

Margaret Doyle Nee' Wood died in 1865.

Henry & Caroline Stringer had from your list:

Mary Ann b1843
Emilia b1844
Mary Ann b1847
Sarah b1850 (Married John Pickering in 1872, Daughter Jane b1873, Husband John died 1873)
Joseph b1853
Edwin b1856 ( I had him down as Edward/Ted on censuses! ;D)
Henrietta b1859 (Was she Ellen? I don't know for sure)

Henrietta was born in March qtr 1859 Manchester reg dist. In the same qtr, year & reg dist there is a death of a Henry Stringer. LancashireBDM website shows both the birth & death to be in the St George sub district of Manchester & Henry to be age 41 at death. When was Henry born? I think that this is more likely than not your Henry's death.

Caroline Doyle (Stringer) died in 1887 aged 62, March qtr in the Prestwich registration district & John Doyle in the same district aged 86 in 1912.

John Doyle & Caroline Stringer's marriage in 1870 appears according once again to the LancashireBDM website as having taken place at Manchester Register Office or was at the very least Registrar attended. I don't have the marriage cert as yet.

Where there are two children of the same name, in this instance Mary Ann b1843 & 1847, would sadly suggest that the earlier Mary Ann died before the second Mary Ann was born. Either that or the second Mary Ann could perhaps be my Mary b1848/49?

Hope this helps, I look forward to hearing from you & if your require any more info, don't hesitate to ask.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline papooski

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 13 May 15 22:31 BST (UK) »
Hello David,
Thank you so, so much for getting back to me. I am so happy to have learned more info regarding the Stringers and the Doyles. I can't wait to pass the information along to my extended family members. I have Henry Stringer born in 1819 in Sheffield so the age at his death would be correct. Just a thought on Henrietta, perhaps her middle name was Ellen. On the other side of my family tree we found relatives using their middle names instead of first names. I think you may be correct regarding the Mary Ann's. I have one tree listing b.1843 as the Mary Ann married to Joseph Gibson and I have found it on another tree listed as 1847 being married to Joseph. My cousins tree has both of them listed but Mary Ann 1847 states she was still alive in 1901. We don't have deceased dates for Mary Ann or her husband Joseph. Actually, I just pulled out Mary Ann's marriage cert, they were married in 1868 where it states she was 22. So it is more likely that the 1843 passed and the Mary 1847 is my great grandmother. I'm going to run this info by my family. If I have any added info that could help you I will certainly be in touch. Thanks again, I thought I was helping you but you really helped me.

Warm Regards,
Paula

Offline DavidJP

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 13 May 15 23:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Paula,

You are very welcome! ;D

Looks like I may just have found the death record for Mary Ann Stringer b1843 in 1847 on freeBMD website:

Stringer, Mary Ann; June qtr 1847; Manchester registration district; Volume 20 Page 851.

This child on LancashireBMD website has her in the St George sub district (same as the birth for Henrietta & death for Henry) aged 2. She perhaps didn't quite make 3, which would be about right. This has to be her as the only other two possibles in Manchester in 1843 & 1846 were both plain Mary's and were according to LancsBMD aged 44 & 66 years respectively. There are no deaths for Mary/Mary Ann's in Sheffield for this period either!

Here are the full death records for Henry Stringer, Caroline & John Doyle from FreeBMD:

Stringer, Henry; March qtr 1859; Manchester registration district; Volume 8d Page 206

Doyle Caroline; March qtr 1887; Prestwich registration district; Volume 8d Page 247

Doyle John; December qtr 1912; Prestwich registration district; Volume 8d Page 451

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline DavidJP

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 04 February 18 23:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

Almost three years since I last posted on this thread, where does the time go! ;D Just updating with progress made, with the recent release of the GRO Index, with mother's maiden surnames etc, I have finally been able to ascertain the correct children of my 3x gt grandparents John T Doyle (1825/26-1912) & Margaret Wood (1826/27-1865). They are as follows (all MMN Wood):

Mary Doyle (1848-1853)
Margaret Doyle (1850-1916) Married Thomas Gibson in 1873. (My 2x gt grandparents)
Elizabeth Doyle (1852-1853)
Elizabeth Doyle (1854-1921) Married Frederick Atkin in 1875.
Matilda Doyle (1856-1934) Married John Richard Morgan in 1891 & married John Ryan in 1906.
Thomas Doyle (1858-1858)
Nicholas Doyle (1859-1931) Married Sarah Jane Shepley in 1884.
Annie Doyle (1861-1862)
Thomas James Doyle (1863-?)
Agnes Doyle (1865-1943) Married Albert Eaton in 1888.

Therefore the children form Caroline's first marriage were:

Sarah Stringer b1850/51
Joseph Stringer b1853
Edwin/Ted Stringer b1855
Henrietta/Ellen Stringer b1859


John & Margaret's son whom I had always thought was called James is actually Thomas James! ::) I am having problems tracking him after 1901, I cannot find him in 1891 either.

What I have is as follows:

1881 Census James is at home with the family at 49, Reather Street, Manchester & is described as a Printer & single. (RG11/3999/107/37)

1901 Census James is living with his father at 1, McCouvier St, Manchester & is described as a Printing Engine Minder & a widower. (RG13/3741/57/27)

There is a marriage of a James Doyle to an Ellen Hagan in 1888, but I believe this to be a different couple. They appear in 1891 with a 1 year old daughter Ann. This James is described as a Railway Carriage Lifter. (RG12/3249/76/24) If he was in the printing trade in 1881 & 1901 you would perhaps expect him to be in the same trade in 1891, or could I be wrong?

There is a possible death for a James/Thomas James in Dec Qtr 1911, Salford reg dist aged 45, Thomas James would have been 48. I believe this death record to be of another James/Thomas James Doyle who from memory was a Schoolmaster or similar in 1891.

I think that James/Thomas James Doyle is with his father John T Doyle in 1891, whom I cannot find either. According to the Manchester Rate Books records on FindMyPast John Doyle was at 88, Reather Street between 1888 & 1893. I cannot seem to find this street on the 1891 or am I doing something wrong?

The 1891 census as regards James/Thomas James is becoming somewhat crucial in tracking him, if only to answer the question, was he married before or after 1891? All other family members  are accounted for in 1891.

Can anyone help finding John T & James/Thomas James in 1891 or what happened to James/Thomas James after 1901?

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Online MaureeninNY

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Re: 1861 Census - Doyle Children Missing, Help Needed!
« Reply #26 on: Monday 05 February 18 12:18 GMT (UK) »
Well,88 Reather in 1891 is at:

RG12/3243/25/4

There is a DOYLE family there but I don't know if it's "yours".

Maureen