Author Topic: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY  (Read 2286 times)

Offline social-butterflies

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otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« on: Saturday 12 January 13 20:51 GMT (UK) »
evening all.
i have made previous requests for info on this person but have had no luck as of yet so am trying once again in hope someone might have come accross something on him.
he was aparently born 1874, and is listed on the old 1910 gypsy lore history tree as son of santalina and henrietta (anneretta) buckley nee boswell, who supposedly had 20+ children (according to newspaper reports on her death) so he comes from a large well known gypsy/travelling family. (santalina being a son of joiner & seni buckley and henrietta beign a daughter of levi & mary-ann boswell nee lee) so good romany gypsy breeding lines  ;)
i have his marriage details in 1908 rayleigh essex and have info of his wife Ada and children etc but its before he was married that has caused trouble like you wouldnt believe.
i also dont have them in 1911 census although i know my nan (one of his daughters) was born in rochford essex in 1918 and her older siblings also in 1908/1911/ rochford essex and one in kent 1910 so they were definatley all still living  and breeding :) but i cannot find them anywhere.
oti's siblings included peron buckley, carnation buckley, adalaide buckley, plus more ( i have 12 in total, not the whole 20+ although am still searching for them too :D)
I have found census for sant & henrietta with some of their other children but none with oti living with them.
oti seems to be a middle-ish child, if you can say of 1 of 20+  as it seems they started with peron in 1857. i have tried searching for them in surname of buckley and smith as sometimes buckelys have used this as an alias i have also tried buckland as a viriant, no luck. also tried with boswell in case he used his wifes maiden name. again nothing.
i do have his marriage and death, and his wifes death. i also have him listed on is childrens marriage certificates, so he is a "real" person although i was starting to doubt this lol
his wife possibly lied about her age when marrying him and he definatley lied about his, as he was much older than her. wondered if its possible he may have had a first wife, although marrige cert to ada does not state this at all. also wondered if he was in war records but found nothing. HELP!!
can any one shed some light please. have no idea as to where else to search. ???
Would really appriciate some genuine help or info on this shifty little so-an-so :) thanks all.
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby

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Offline CitizenSmith

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #1 on: Monday 21 January 13 16:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Can you let us know who Otey gives as his father on his marriage cert and also Ada's surname?

Also, what are the names and birthplaces of any of the children of this couple who were born before the 1911 census?

I've taken a quick look at the marriage index and note that a Lily Buckley and a James Smith married in the same registration district in the same quarter as your Otey and Ada: Rochford, December 1908. Looks like their marriage certificate is on the following page to your one. Perhaps it was a double wedding?

Look forward to learning more.

Thanks
Sharon
Smith - East Anglia & Lancashire
Taylor - East Anglia
Draper
Hope
Shaw
Gray
Boswell
Lovell
Robinson
Chilcott
All Blackpool Gypsies
"Royal Epping Forest Gypsies": ball-giving group
"Borrow's Gypsies": the people that the novelist George Borrow (1803-1881) knew and wrote about

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Offline king otg

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 29 January 13 11:18 GMT (UK) »

EX Rayleigh m5/10/1908 Otey BUCKLEY (28) hkr (fa: Samuel – hkr) = Ada WEBB (21) (fa: Tots ([means] Thomas) – hkr)

The following BUCKLEY census entry gives a son of Lazarus called Oatie (bc1895 Romford) so it can be difficult to tell them apart and the marriages amongst those below might include one of his children rather than those of the earlier Oaty (bc1874-80):

1901EX-1647/107/32 Lazarus (31) lic.hkr, Eliza (30) +5

EX Eastwood (b19/9/1911) Ocean d/o Oty BUCKLEY/Ada [née WEBB], lic.hkr of E. (b cert)
EX Eastwood bp7/7/1918 Wichender [means Richender] d/o Oatie/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp7/7/1918 Ada d/o Oatie/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp7/7/1918 Brittannia d/o Oatie/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp7/7/1918 Olive d/o Oatie/Ada WEBB, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp27/6/1920 (b19/1) Kenza s/o Ottie/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp30/10/1921 Penda s/o Oatie/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp22/6/1924 Kitty d/o Oti/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp7/4/1929 Alice d/o Oti/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp7/4/1929 John s/o Oti/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp4/10/1931 (b8/7) Oti s/o Oti/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E
EX Eastwood bp13/10/1935 (b9/2) Sheila d/o Oti/Ada BUCKLEY, hkr of E

EX Eastwood m17/10/1931 Ivy BUCKLEY (21) (fa: Oaty – hkr) = Francis George LINCE (23) lab (fa:    Thomas – dec’d lab)

EX Eastwood m25/10/1942 Kitty BUCKLEY (19) (fa: Oathey – hrs dlr) = Stanley Albert WARRAKER (fa: Alfred Ernest – grn.grocer)

EX Eastwood m24/12/1938 Brittania (23) bakelite moulder (fa: Oatey – gn.dlr) = Henry Prevost CONTE (24 (fa: Geo Riven)

EX Eastwood m21/5/1947 Charles Anthony Kenneth (26) timber mercht (fa: Oattey – retired dlr) = Betty SMITH (19) (fa: George – foundryman)

The age of Ivy (bc1910) suggests that she should be daughter of the older Oaty because the younger Oatie would only have been 15 in 1910. If that is the case then Ivy is the only additional name available for a 1911 search for Oaty and Ada.

Name-changing appears to be common in Ada’s family. Although clearly born WEBB, her parents, Thomas and Sarah, used the surname BIBBY in 1881 and 1891:

1881HRT-1408/71/7 Thomas BIBBY (29) lic.hkr, Sarah [née PEARCE] (26) +5
1891EX-1383/35/6 Phillip BIBBY (40) trav’g hkr, Sarah (37) +4

Since Thomas WEBB’s father on his marriage certificate is given as ‘Thomas’ the following appears to be his father, Ada’s grandfather:

EX Doddinghurst m24/9/1871 Thomas WEBB (full) lic.hkr (fa: Thomas – lic.hkr) = Sarah PEARSE (full) (fa: John – lic.hkr)

CAM Burwell bp15/5/1831 Thomas s/o Thomas/Marian WEBB, gipsy [bapt with Cornelius SMITH]

EX Eastwood br20/4/1917 (86) [d16/4] Thomas WEBB, of Eastwood Villa

Oaty BUCKLEY’s father, Santalina, was also known as Sam or Samuel BUCKLEY so there could be a number of possible forename spellings and surnames to look up in 1911 (and earlier). I suspect that the best chance of finding Oaty is to look for his close relatives and their neighbours where the transcription may have distorted the original information to the point where it cannot be retrieved through an index. He was most likely to have been living in Essex and probably in or near Rayleigh.

Some of the above details were provided by Amanda Webb.

TL

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 February 13 11:21 GMT (UK) »
thanks king otg.
the children you listed are all oaty & ada's children, they had 14 in total.
I have checked many census which contain their families and not found them with anyone.......... as yet  ::) but am constantly looking for clues, name changes, similarities  etc.

citizen smith. yes that marriage is correct and they were both married at rayleigh church. definately looks like double wedding, lol. As for the 1911 census, i cannot find them. totally stuffed on this one  ::)
ada's father was listed as TOTS on the marriage cert which i believe to be an abriation for thomas, which is the name my aunt says were her grandparents (thomas & sarah) and she remembers them, where they lived etc so it does all tally up (have many other clarications/certificates for this as well). just cannot find otey & ada with their kids. have got the childrens baptisms, mainly at eastwood church,and some of their birth cert's, except ivy, who we know was baptised somewhere in kent as a boy, but im still trying to trace this. was hoping if i found this then that might lead to an area to look for otey & ada but no such luck.
 dont believe they went to far though as all children born in essex, so they were'nt travelling abroad. can only assume they used a completely different name. i have lots of documents of the bohemia estate and anne boelyn estate with all the wagons/vardos on and who owned them and who lived in them etc but otey is not on any and yet i know they lived at bohemia..... very strange. all help much appriciated and desperately needed :D
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby

Offline whiteout7

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 June 17 09:54 BST (UK) »
Essex Newsman Essex, England
25 May 1912

POLICE COURTS
"Oatey Buckley, 18, also of Thunderslay, was charged with receiving some of the money. —Tookey was bound over for six months and Buckley was sentenced to a month's imprisonment."
http://www.GenesReunited.co.nz/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=oatey%20buckley

Thundersley is a district in the north of the Castle Point Borough, in southeast Essex, England, ... The western part of Thundersley (approximately St George's parish or the St George ward) is known as New Thundersley.  <------he was here aged 18 in the year 1912 (born 1894??)
 

Also mentioned in relation to him in the newspapers is  Coombe Wood, in Coombewood Drive, Thundersley.
Charles Tookey and his son Ferney Tookey were also involved.

((This looks like son of Lazarus Buckley and Elizabeth Shaw called Oatie (bc1895 Romford)))
Ooops wrong one!
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline whiteout7

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 10 June 17 11:05 BST (UK) »
I have lots of documents of the Bohemia estate and Anne boleyn estate with all the wagons/vardos on and who owned them and who lived in them etc but otey is not on any and yet i know they lived at bohemia..... very strange. all help much appriciated and desperately needed :D

Have you looked at anything for  Coombe Wood, in Coombewood Drive, Thundersley for the older Oatey Buckley or younger Oatey Buckley?
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline social-butterflies

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Re: otey/oti/ostey/otesy BUCKLEY
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 18 June 17 10:30 BST (UK) »
morning whiteout7
I haven't looked at those details but will do next time at ERO. Thanks. and if you have any other helpful hints that would be great :D
buckley
webb
boswell (shadrack line)
pearse
lee
smith (inc epping forest)
heron
bibby