HARWOTH in Oldham

[clairefalvey]

Ok, here is the update:

The witnesses on the marriage of Sarah and William were:
Simeon Schofield and Martha Jane Hope. I did look into them a little a couple of years ago but forgot about them when I had a trial at ancestry recently.

I know that William Jackson was well read and he could write his name (as did Simoen Schofield) and that Sarah Howarth and Martha Jane Hope both wrote their mark. I wonder if that denotes a split in whose friends/relatives were who's?

[clairefalvey]

From what I can see on my limited access to ancestry, it appears that Simeon and Martha Jane got married to each other....according to census records. He seems to be an iron worker.

[heywood]

They are on the same page for marriage so maybe friends or just convenient witnesses.

[heywood]

1871 4443 16  25

William Jackson 32 yrs bricklayer b Ireland is in Bowling. He is visiting Joseph Scindery.

I would say that is very probably him in Oldham in 1861. He is living just a couple of doors away from Sarah.
If you have the right family in Liverpool, John Jackson is a Town Missionary. There is a big gap between the children. William is born 1839. John is born 1851. The family could well have travelled to Scotland from Down, so there may be some truth in his giving Ayrshire as his birthplace.

He may have travelled to Oldham for work as probably did Sarah's family.

What evidence do you have that John and Rachel are his parents? What is his father's occupation on marriage certificate?

[clairefalvey]

Yes John Jackson was a town missionary and yes you are correct about the big gap in ages. It would make his parents around 16-18 when he was born, which makes me wonder if he was illegitimate, I even wonder if both parents are his parents, but I can't find a birth cert for him. Both John Jackson and Rachel Kane/Kean/Cane are mentioned on his death cert. Also his brother Thomas Matheson ended up in the same part of New Zealand (I in fact initially thought Thomas as a potenital son for William and Sarah and got his death cert. Ironically it did not show that his parents were John and Rachel, but someone else in the family has tracked all that down and he is definately their son. He was queried William as being their son until I showed him copies of his marriage and death certs!!

I find it interesting that John and Rachel apparently had a son and then waited 10 years to the have the rest of the children (we can't find a marriage cert for them either@!!!) and William and Sarah wait nearly 10 years before having children!

In William's obit in the paper it says he was born in Down but spent a lot of his youth in Yorkshire, no mention of Lancashire. I wonder if he did grow up there or it is just he lived there for a number of years prior to coming to NZ (as we know he was there working and Sarah was there boarding in Yorkshire and the only kids born in the UK are born in Yorkshire).  It makes me wonder if William MAY have been brought up separately to the other Jackson children (as none of their descendants knew of him!). The first record I have of him is his marriage.

It's one of those parts of my tree which has been a complete nightmare to unravel and having common names does not help!!

1871 4443 16  25

William Jackson 32 yrs bricklayer b Ireland is in Bowling. He is visiting Joseph Scindery.

I would say that is very probably him in Oldham in 1861. He is living just a couple of doors away from Sarah.
If you have the right family in Liverpool, John Jackson is a Town Missionary. There is a big gap between the children. William is born 1839. John is born 1851. The family could well have travelled to Scotland from Down, so there may be some truth in his giving Ayrshire as his birthplace.

He may have travelled to Oldham for work as probably did Sarah's family.

What evidence do you have that John and Rachel are his parents? What is his father's occupation on marriage certificate?

[heywood]

Just a few more things - in conclusion perhaps? (assuming of course that we have the right people here  :

There was at least one other child to John and Rachel Jackson who is not shown in census:

1861 George Pennell Jackson born June 1861 and baptised September 1861
(There could be a death but without the middle name it is difficult to trace)

Rachel Howarth and George Dean - marriage 30 June 1855

both give address as Becket Meadow Oldham
George Dean - full age labourer Father William Dean Charcoal Burner
Rachel Howarth full age spinster  Father James Leonard Weaver
witnesses Arthur Cocker and James Fielden

This shows the link for Rachel Howarth and Rachel Dean  - father James Leonard Weaver

There doesn't seem to be a death for George Dean 1855- 1860 in Oldham

The addresses- Vineyard/Becket Meadow are in the Lees Road/Glodwick area, although the marriage to Robert Winterbottom and her address is a different part of town.

William may not have spent much time in Yorkshire but perhaps longer than in Oldham 
The Winterbottoms were also in Bradford.

Whittle le Woods is quite some distance from Oldham as is Liverpool so perhaps work in all cases was the draw.

I just wish we could find out if Bridget and Rachel are the same person 
The Howorth family from 1851 just seem to disappear.

[clairefalvey]

I know nothing about George Pennell Jackson, so will have to look into him. I have a relative of the Jackson's who has done some work on the descendants of John and Rachael. Mind you he did not know of William and we cannot find what happened to John W Jackson, a brother to William.

I do know as well that the Howarth and Haworth names were interchangable, or that particular areas around Lancashire would have Howarth and others would have Haworth.  I know that on her death certificate it was Sarah nee Haworth but on her marriage it was Howarth.

I do wonder if Sarah had come from Whittle or Whittle le Woods and got married in Oldham (but having said that it did say she came from there on her death cert BUT I know how things can get mixed up as it had the professions of the fathers of Sarah and William mixed up, so it COULD be an error.

Just a few more things - in conclusion perhaps? (assuming of course that we have the right people here  :

There was at least one other child to John and Rachel Jackson who is not shown in census:

1861 George Pennell Jackson born June 1861 and baptised September 1861
(There could be a death but without the middle name it is difficult to trace)

Rachel Howarth and George Dean - marriage 30 June 1855

both give address as Becket Meadow Oldham
George Dean - full age labourer Father William Dean Charcoal Burner
Rachel Howarth full age spinster  Father James Leonard Weaver
witnesses Arthur Cocker and James Fielden

This shows the link for Rachel Howarth and Rachel Dean  - father James Leonard Weaver

There doesn't seem to be a death for George Dean 1855- 1860 in Oldham

The addresses- Vineyard/Becket Meadow are in the Lees Road/Glodwick area, although the marriage to Robert Winterbottom and her address is a different part of town.

William may not have spent much time in Yorkshire but perhaps longer than in Oldham 
The Winterbottoms were also in Bradford.

Whittle le Woods is quite some distance from Oldham as is Liverpool so perhaps work in all cases was the draw.

I just wish we could find out if Bridget and Rachel are the same person 
The Howorth family from 1851 just seem to disappear.

[Hemi]

Hello

My husband & I were very interested in seeing your post re William JACKSON & his wife Sarah HARWORTH/HAWORTH/HOWORTH, plus William's parents John JACKSON & Rachael KANE/KEAN/CANE. These are my husband's ancestors. William died in Patea, Taranaki, New Zealand 26 July 1917 and was indeed a bricklayer. His wife Sarah died 12 April 1926 in Hawera, a nearby town, where they had family. (I have death certs for both he & Sarah.) There are online cemetery records for both Patea & Hawera which you could search.
I would love to have details from the marriage certificate of William & Sarah if you would be happy to share them. William's BROTHER, Thomas Matheson is also buried in the Patea Cemetery. I also have a birth & marriage certificate for him. He was a coastal shipping captain. (We also were stunned to discover he was a brother & not a son of William - certainly a huge age gap for children!) If you would like any further details of Sarah & William's family - marriages, occupations etc please contact me (although I don't have many specific dates apart from the year) A private PM would be great.
Through census records, I found Rachael & John JACKSON from Ireland and their family living in Everton, Liverpool. In 1871 they were living at 3 Seacombe Terrace, Everton. In 1881 they were living at 5 Luther St, Everton. But I have no marriage record. I wonder if anyone has found that yet? John was indeed a Town Missionary and is believed to have died 26 Jan 1876 (quite some time before Rachael -but her death date is unknown as yet.)
Tenuously, I think I saw Whitley, Lancs. as a birthplace for Sarah HAWORTH/HAWORTH. There is also an Oldham in Ireland which might have been confused with England as a birth or marriage place for JACKSON family origins.
 We would be very interested in any further information or confirmed details of Sarah's HAWORTH'S parents & family. We are also greatly looking forward to reading any further posts or PM's. Here's hoping!

[Judith Mullin]

Hello Hemi, 5yrs+ since you posted here. Re: Thomas Matheson Jackson - ships captain, Patea. This is my great grand father, therefore William would be my gg Uncle. My mother Joyce Clapham (in her 98th year) remembers her grand father Thomas Matherson Jackson who married Mary Ellen O'Shaughnessey. They had 6 children. Mary died of the "Black Flu"
Rachel m Alfred Alabaster. - Raetihi
Dorothy Ellen m Thomas Andrew Pellew ADAMS - my grand parents. - lived in Hawera
James m Edna - Son Ian is very interested in the family tree. - Taihape.
Robert - I believe was the Barman.
Thomas
Frank.
In a bit of a hurry at the moment, but it would be nice to share more info.