Author Topic: Desertserges marriage about 1835  (Read 794 times)

Offline Michael ONeil

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Desertserges marriage about 1835
« on: Friday 25 January 13 13:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks - anyone help out?

Looking for the marriage details of James Neill and Catherine Walsh marriage sometime prior to the birth of first child 23 May 1835 in Cashilisky (baptism record at Immaculate Conception in Clonakilty). A further 8 children baptised/born in same location.

James Neill from most likely Cashilisky and/oy Ringroe/Fourcuil. Catherine Walsh no details.

Family emigrated to NYC in 1850 and in 1873. Catherine makes a Civil War pension application in which she states the marriage was officiated by Reverend Father Roche but no date or location given.

The only Reverend Father Roche I can find is Maurice Roche who was parish priest for Desertserges 1817-1839 so right period but I can't find any records for the parish. Also says Bandon CC and Watergrasshill CC.

Nothing at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie

Is this something someone can check out or point me further?
Surnames: O'Neil, Beechinor, Ames, Dickers
Locations: Clonakilty, Cashilisky, Fourcuil, Ringroe, Knuckskagh, New York City, Ohio, Canada, Liverpool.

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Offline SilkenTom

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Re: Desertserges marriage about 1835
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 August 18 01:24 BST (UK) »
As the baptismal records of James and Catherine's children show that their first son was baptised Peter, there's a good chance therefore that James Neil's father was a Peter.
The sponsors of baptisms can also provide clues for the previous generation.
The sponsors of their first child Mary, were Peter Neil and Honora Walsh (likely to be the maternal grandmother).
One sponsor of Felix Neil in 1839 is Eliza Neil (possibly a sister of James')
(There is a baptismal record for her in 1818 born to Peter Neil and Mary Sullivan of "Ringroe" and records for two older sisters Anne 1810 and Norry 1815)

The Tithe Applotment books of 1829 have an entry for Peter Neill in Reenroe (which borders Cashelisky) and next to him is Felix Neill.
One Felix Neill was the baptismal sponsor for John Neill in 1842 and  another son was baptised Felix in 1839.

As you say the family emigrated in 1850, there is no mention of them in the entries of Kilgarriff parish in Griffith's Valuation of 1851.
If they are the parents of Michael baptised in December 1850, they had moved by then to Fourchill, which is on the other side of Clonakilty. (However, could they have emigrated in 1850 with an infant born on Dec 14th?)

I think the connection with Desertserges based on a Priest's name is a bit tenuous but there are plenty of records online for that Parish (and some older ones for the parish of "Enniskeane and Desertserges".)

The online records are not complete across all periods.
This table provides info on which decades are covered for which parish records.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/parishes/Cork%20&%20Ross%20(RC).pdf

Useful Links

https://www.townlands.ie/cork/cashelisky/

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Neil&firstname=&county=Cork&parish=&townland=Reenroe&search=Search

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=O%27Neil&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=&location=&yyfrom=&yyto=&diocese=CORK%20%26%20ROSS%20%28RC%29&parish=CLONAKILTY&century=&decade=&type=B&type=M&sort=&pageSize=100&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=1834&yyDfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&yyBto=&yyMto=1839&yyDto=&locationB=&locationM=Clonakility&locationD=&keyword=&member0=p&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=Walsh&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&event=&submit=Search

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=Neill&type=B&ddBfrom=&mmBfrom=&yyBfrom=1810&ddBto=&mmBto=&yyBto=1818&locationB=Clonakilty&ddMfrom=&mmMfrom=&yyMfrom=&ddMto=&mmMto=&yyMto=&locationM=&ddDfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddDto=&mmDto=&yyDto=&locationD=&member0=p&namef0=Mary&namel0=Sullivan&keyword=&submit=Search

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Offline Michael ONeil

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Re: Desertserges marriage about 1835
« Reply #2 on: Monday 13 August 18 09:55 BST (UK) »
Hi SilkenTom,

Cheers for this but things have moved on since I posted this...

I ended up writing to the secretary at the Church of the Assumption in Ahiohill which is where Roche was PP and is buried. My reason was that whilst there were online baptismal records, many of which were officiated by Roche, there were no marriage records at all. Anyhow she supplied me with the marriage details - 10th June 1834 which was almost a year before the birth of their first child Mary 23rd May 1835. She also said that she would speak to the PP as the company that did the digitising of the archives should have done the marriage records too. I'm not sure if this has been resolved yet.

So I have my Walsh/Ahiohill connection and later documents for Catherine O'Neil (Walsh) give her father's details at Ahiohill (Patrick) and indeed the Tithe Applotment books confirm that in Ahiohill there are only 5 families - 2 Walsh (one being Patrick and possibly a brother) and a Rev. Maurice Roche. Seems pretty conclusive?

As for emigration, James (the father) went first in September 1850, followed a year later by 2 daughters and then followed again a year later in 1852 by the remaining family - all to NYC. Michael was born in December 1850 in Fourcuil - James had left his pregnant wife and 8 children at his sister and brother-in-law's property - Catherine Neill m. John Kingston. The property today belongs to an adopted relative of a descendant of Denis Neill (see below).

I too have tried to use the sponsors' details on the various baptismal records to try and ascertain possible family members as well as the locations. I am reasonably confident that for James, I have identified 2 sisters (Catherine m. Kingston and Elizabeth m. Donovan) a brother Denis (who I already knew about) and I'm almost certain about the Felix. I have other possibilities from the sponsors' details for the children of Kingston and Donovan but I can't be sure with these for now. Locations - Cashelisky, Reenroe, Fourcuil and Drimoleague do almost all border each other including what you noted, so it is highly likely that the various Neills are related but untangling the Gordian Knot is another question. I've tried to do this with a chap called Mark Grace who has done more work on this but so far it's work in progress. He's done far more work on the overall ancestral roots for the various Neills in the area than I have - I've chipped away purely at my lineage.

Finally we have James' father as Patrick born about 1760 Drimoleague - that's it and this is not confirmed - it's merely oral family info. Something I fear may be beyond confirming now?

Many thanks - Michael.
Surnames: O'Neil, Beechinor, Ames, Dickers
Locations: Clonakilty, Cashilisky, Fourcuil, Ringroe, Knuckskagh, New York City, Ohio, Canada, Liverpool.