Author Topic: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler  (Read 8443 times)

Offline Arien

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National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« on: Wednesday 30 January 13 08:02 GMT (UK) »
Could someone please do a National archives lookup for the birth/christening and marriage of Charles Chandler. His headstone in South Australia says he was born Oct 13th 1804. He emigrated to South Australia aboard the John Pirie in 1836. The Bound for South Australia website says he was living in East Acton at this time but previous searches suggest he was not born or married there. His wifes name was Elizabeth (possibly Holmes or Haberfield) who unfortunately died at sea on the journey. They had four children Elizabeth 1826?, William 1831?, Sarah 1833?, Harriet 1835?. Any information on this family on this family would be greatly appreciated.

Online trish1120

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 30 January 13 15:31 GMT (UK) »
Does Elizabeths possible Surname ie HOLMES/HABERFOELD come from Childrens Death Certs?

Marriage;
31 December 1828, Wrestlingworth, Bedfordshire
Charles CHANDLER and Elizabeth HOLMES
(Source Familysearch.Org)

Marriage;
01 June 1828, St Philip and St Jacobs, Bristol, Gloucestershire
William CHANDLER
Elizabeth HABERFIELD

Trish :)
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Offline dawnsh

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 30 January 13 15:54 GMT (UK) »
Related topics here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629160.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629162.0.html

The Bristol marriage look-up is required as the LDS microfilm collection has been moved to Kew and no-one on the Gloucester boards seems to do look-ups

Dawn
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Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline Annette7

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 30 January 13 21:46 GMT (UK) »
Have been coming back to this one on and off during the day (whilst looking after a 4 year old), mainly because I looked at the online trees for this family and they simply didn't add up!   Two different dates given for Charles' death - 1878 and 1882 although would seem to be 1878.   People then in Australia shown on the 1851 UK Census - it just goes on and on!

The major cause of this, it seems, is that The Bound for South Australia website states that Charles' wife was an Elizabeth who died en route.   Records for Charles' married to Elizabeth's seem to have been consulted and in the end the marriage of a William Chandler who married Elizabeth Haberfield 1826 Bristol seems to have been accepted as 'the one'.

However, I firmly believe that 'wife Elizabeth' should actually be Ann!   We know that Charles and family are shown as from East Acton and, as been mentioned on other threads, his children were indeed born at Acton but mother clearly shown as an Ann:

Elizabeth b.28/6/1826, bp.30/7/1826
James b.7/10/1827, bp.11/11/1827, bur.7/8/1831
William b.19/6/1830, bp.11/7/1830
Sarah Elenor b.27/7/1833, bp.18/8/1833
Harriet b.14/4/1835, bp.3/5/1835

The online trees show most of the children as born in Bristol (with no definite dates - clearly, they weren't).  Would seem everyone is looking for baptisms for these children to a Charles and Elizabeth when it is in fact Charles and Ann.   One of the trees even shows Charles himself as being born in 2 places i.e. Bristol, Glos. and Brighton, Sussex!!!

I have had my purely logical head on today and have, aside from the name given for Charles' wife, gone purely from the known facts.    From Charles' 3rd. marriage we have the name of his father i.e. James Chandler.   Also, the trees show, in some cases, 2 or 3 christian names when according to birth/marriages/deaths in Australia they only (with the exception of Sarah Elenor) had one.  Whilst I cannot categorically prove my findings this is my interpretation of things.

I believe that Charles Chandler married an Ann Newell 21/2/1825 Shinfield, Berkshire - after the marriage they are no longer in the parish - no children baptised, no burials.    I believe they moved to Acton where their children were born/baptised.   Equally so, there is no trace of Charles, Ann and children in Acton after the baptism of their youngest in 1835.   This again fits in with the family going to Australia on 1/3/1836 (arriving 16/8/1836).

Although Charles' headstone states a birthdate of 13/10/1804 I think it may well be a year late. 

A Charles Chandler was bp.30/10/1803 Shinfield, Berkshire (which could tie in if his actual birthdate was 13/10/1803 rather than 1804.   He was the son of a James Chandler and wife Harriet (both these names given to his own children).   He appears to be their only child - however, a James Chandler was bur.13/7/1807 (no age given but doesn't indicate it was a child) which could be him but cannot find a remarriage or death for wife Harriet (not at Shinfield anyway). 

James Chandler married Harriet Willia (? think this should read Willis) 10/7/1802 Shinfield, Berks.  (Shinfield baptisms show a Harriet Willis bp.11/8/1782, dau. of William and Lydia and although there was a William Chandler and wife Mary having children baptised at Shinfield from 1764 to 1782, which included a Charles  in 1773, I cannot see a son James in the baptisms on familysearch so don't know if they were his parents).

Anyway, something for you to give some serious thought to.  I think the above makes far more sense than what the online trees suggest (with no kind of proof).

Good luck.

Annette
 
 
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Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
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Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

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Offline Arien

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 31 January 13 12:50 GMT (UK) »
 Thanks Annette, your theory does appear to make more sense than all those trees I originally started following when I began my search. I also soon realised that many trees were contradictory and the facts presented didn't add up. I was focused on the Elizabeth name due to the Bound for South Australia website and that is also the name recorded in the John Pirie passenger list. Dawn also recently pointed out that an Ann was recorded as the mother of his children. Possible that Elizabeth might have been the name she was known by and Ann was her real name.
 I had also started wondering if the family had got the date on his headstone wrong as I had hit a dead end finding a Charles born or baptised on that date.
   I will definitely be changing course and researching along these lines as they seem more promising.

  Thanks Annette, Dawn & Trish for your help, much appreciated
 Cheers Roger

Offline Arien

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 09 February 13 05:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annette, where did you find Elizabeth b.28/6/1826, bp.30/7/1826. I have tracked the other children named but this one eludes me. Was she also born in East Acton to Charles & Ann.
 Thanks Roger

Offline Annette7

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 09 February 13 12:52 GMT (UK) »
So sorry, Roger - I should have mentioned this originally.   Took place like the others at Acton but her surname on the transcribed entry on Ancestry has been shown as Chanter, rather than Chandler.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Arien

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 09 February 13 13:15 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Annette

Offline Paul gen

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Re: National Archives look up request for Charles Chandler
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 08 March 14 08:48 GMT (UK) »
Charles Chandler's death notice 1878 'Family Notices.', South Australian Register (Adelaide, SA : 1839 - 1900), 22 August, p. 4, viewed 8 March, 2014, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article42991591
Green, Collins, Cavanagh, Carn or Carne, Gillett, Davis, Symons, Foord, Hart, Knight. McLachlane