Davies or Thomas, Llywell

[Lesleyann]

I have the marriage certificate from 1866 for my great-grandparents. They married in the register office, Brecon. He was John Jenkins and she was Ruth Thomas, born in Llywell  - or Llywel, depending on where you look - in 1842.  The certificate names her father as Joseph Thomas but the name Thomas has been crossed out and "04 Davies" written above it.  On the censuses she seems to be living with her mother and her grandparents and there's no sign of a father so I'm wondering if she was illegitimate.  As far as I can tell her mother never married.  Can anyone please throw any light as to what the correction on the certificate means?

Lesleyann

[z]

Good Morning Lesleyann

Firstly, welcome to Rootschat

Thought that I would offer a suggestion - have you thought about giving the Brecon Registration Office a quick call with your query they may have come across this before and might be able to offer you a reason for the "crossing out" - there could be a number of reasons - maybe she was covering up the fact that she was illegitimate by using a fictitious name she then discovered at the time of her marriage the name of her real father and the information was changed.

Using the name Joseph Davies and occupation have you been able to find a possibility in the census, is he living close by?

Does her birth certificate contain similar information?

Just a few thoughts maybe they will help

Regards

Z

[Lesleyann]

Hello Z and thank you for your reply.  I hadn't thought of trying the record office.  I'll do that tomorrow. The only Ruth I can find who looks like her is in 1851 living with Thomas Price and his daughter, Ann Price, who is unmarried but seems to be Ruth's mother. In 1861 Ann Price is a pauper living with her granddaughter, also Ann Price. She is Ruth Davies here and again in 1861 when she is working as a servant in the Castle Hotel, Brecon. She later ran a hotel with John in Ynysybwl where she died at the age of 48.

I can't order her birth certificate because I don't know enough details and there are umpteen Ruth Davies and Ruth Thomas births around Breconshire at that time.  I have her son's birth certificate which says Ruth Jenkins formerly Thomas.

Thanks again for your help and I'll follow up your record office suggestion in the morning.

Lesleyann

[Lesleyann]

Just to update you, I telephoned the Registry Office in Brecon and spoke to a very helpful lady.  She explained that the 04 shows an entry has been corrected and 04 means that it was the fourth correction in that book.  She said no details had been recorded as to why the correction was made so I suppose I'll never know. I won't give up hope, though.

Lesleyann

[z]

Good Evening Lesleyann

Thank-you for your update it had crossed my mind this morning as to how you got on and coupled with the fact that using your additional information I decided to try and track this mysterious lady and her family -  so curiosity definitely got the better of me

Although I haven't found anything to explain this name change, I found Ruth Davies in 1851, living with the Price family, but just cannot make out in the relationship column what her link to the head of the family, Thomas Price is "........ Daug" -  somewhat confusing And in 1861 RG9 4209 35 5 is she Ruth Price working as a servant with William Thomas and family? And who in 1841 H017 1367 Bk10 Dist 4 Folio 20 Pg2 is David Price b1836? Are the witness names any help -  could they be family members? And what address did Ruth give at the time of her marriage and what was the occupation for Joseph Thomas/Davies ............................

Sorry questions, questions which you have probably been asking yourself but I love a good mystery don't you, and you will find plenty of help on here, don't give up hope just yet

All the best

Z

Sorry just to add that there seems to be a couple of posts on here you may find interesting - if you go to search and enter "Davies Llywel" - who knows it might put you in touch with other researchers

[Mabel Bagshawe]

My best interpretation of the relaitonship on 1851 is "daug of daug"  - why not say grand daughter

There is a marriage in Llywel in 1858 of an Ann Price to a David Davies
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCVB-J5L

[Lesleyann]

I've had another look at the marriage cert and Ruth's address was Merthyr Cynog.  Her father's occupation was farmer.  The groom was a farm servant so I suppose it's possible that he worked on her father's farm. His address was Aberyscir. The writing on the cert is very hard to decipher.  I've had it a couple of years and gave up on it a while ago.  I've only just resurrected it to give it another go.  The witnesses names look like Jas W. Jones and ? W? Price.  He could be connected with the other Prices but I just can't make out his initials.

I'd seen the 1858 marriage and that's definitely one to consider.  I'm going to look for Davies/Llywel now to see if it turns up anything. 

I've walked around those parts of the world and tramped through cemeteries with no luck.  The groom was born in Llanfihangel Nant Bran and his father was a woollen weaver so we've looked all round there too.  About a month ago we found a great number of my Jenkins family buried in Brychgoed cemetery.  Ruth and John both died in Ynysybwl and I've failed to find their graves too.

Thanks again, both, for your input.

Lesleyann