Author Topic: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674  (Read 5641 times)

Offline MattD30

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Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« on: Tuesday 05 February 13 02:11 GMT (UK) »
Can someone please check the parish registers for Charing for me to confirm who the parents of Anne Rayner were. On the IGI there are two entries:

Anne Rayner - christened 4 October 1674 Charing - parents Thomas and Mary
Anne Rayner - christened 4 October 1674 Charing - parents Robert and Mary

I would be very grateful if anyone can double check this with the original registers and let me know who Anne's parents were, or if there were two christenings on that date.

Thanks
Matt

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #1 on: Friday 08 February 13 07:54 GMT (UK) »
Hello Mat,
The father looks to be Robert.  Here are a few extracts I made from Charing Bishop's Transcripts:

SURNAMEGIVEN NAMEEVT   DATEYEARPARENTS/SPOUSEPLACESOURCE
RAYNERElizabeth C01 Sep1673   Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERAnne    C04 Oct1674   Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERRichardC23 Dec1677Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERFrancesChr.28 Oct1683Robert/MaryCharingBT


SURNAME GIVEN NAMEEVTDATEYEARPARENTS/SPOUSEPLACESOURCE
RAYNERRobertBurial08 Dec1668No details statedCharingBT
RAYNERRobertBurial15 Mar1709   No details statedCharingBT

Hope this helps to clarify the IGI dilemma for you.  There was no marriage of the parents at Charing.

Good luck.

Sincerely, Susan
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Offline MattD30

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #2 on: Friday 08 February 13 19:14 GMT (UK) »
Hello Mat,
The father looks to be Robert.  Here are a few extracts I made from Charing Bishop's Transcripts:

SURNAMEGIVEN NAMEEVT   DATEYEARPARENTS/SPOUSEPLACESOURCE
RAYNERElizabeth C01 Sep1673   Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERAnne    C04 Oct1674   Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERRichardC23 Dec1677Robert/MaryCharingBT
RAYNERFrancesChr.28 Oct1683Robert/MaryCharingBT


SURNAME GIVEN NAMEEVTDATEYEARPARENTS/SPOUSEPLACESOURCE
RAYNERRobertBurial08 Dec1668No details statedCharingBT
RAYNERRobertBurial15 Mar1709   No details statedCharingBT

Hope this helps to clarify the IGI dilemma for you.  There was no marriage of the parents at Charing.

Good luck.

Sincerely, Susan

Thanks Susan

I thought the father was Robert, but finding two entries on the IGI did confuse me so thanks for clearing that up. I have the other names as well so thanks for confirming those. Now all I need is to find the marriage.

Matt

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 09 February 13 04:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello Matt,

Yes, the marriage would be key!  In my database I have the following reference to a marriage licence and to a marriage:

SURNAMEGIVEN NAMEBRIDESURBRIDE GIVEVTDATEYEARPARENTS/SPOUSE/NOTESPLACESOURCE
RAINERRobertBROWNMaryML...1672......Canterbury Marriage Licenses in   
BOYDS G & B II [abstracted by J. M. Cowper]
RAYNORROBERTBROWNEMARYMarr20 Dec1672...ST.ANDREWS, Canterbury, KENT, ENGLANDI.G.I.
   

Sorry, I do not have the actual license as my one and only reference came out of Boyds Marriages.  The parish register for St. Andrews may be able to provide some additional information about the parties but to get the full details you would want to look at the license.

Sincerely
Susan
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Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 09 February 13 04:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt,

For some reason the table setup in my reply, above, shoved the right-hand column too far right!  What the source says for the first entry is:

Canterbury Marriage Licenses found in Boyd's Marriage Index Grooms and Brides II, abstracted by J. M. Cowper.

The source for the second entry is simply the I.G.I.

Sincerely,
Susan
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Offline jibba

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 March 13 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guys

I accidentally stumbled on this page whilst looking for something else. Ann Rayner is my ancestor, but I have Ann's parents as Thomas & Mary. My source comes from the transcripts made by KFHS

1669/70 16 Jan Thomas s/o Thomas RAYNER
1671/72 10 Mar Mary d/o Thomas & Mary RAYNER
1674 04 Oct Anne d/o Thomas & Mary RAYNER

These are the entries I could see for Robert Rayner. Looks like 3 generations given the gaps

1621 09 Sept William s/o Robert REYNOLDS

1641/42 06 Feb Ann d/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1643 02 Apr Robert s/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1644 06 Oct Elizabeth d/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1646 11 Oct John s/o Robert RAINER
1648 29 Dec William s/o Robert RAYNIRD
1648 29 Dec Richard s/o Robert RAYNIRD
1650/51 09 Feb Susana d/o Robert RAINER
1653 23 Jun Mathias s/o Robert RAINARD
1654 29 Dec Gorg s/o Robert RAINNARD

1677 23 Dec Richard s/o Robert REYNER

I think we'll need to double check both the original register and the BT to confirm who Ann's parents really were :(

Regards
Lee

Offline MattD30

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 31 May 15 01:27 BST (UK) »
Has anyone identified who Anne Rayner's parents were? Could Thomas and Robert have been brothers who both had a daughter named Anne perhaps?

Matt

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 31 May 15 07:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan
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Offline MattD30

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Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 June 15 19:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Wow you have been busy! I am pretty sure that the Ann born 1674 is my Ann. I take it the registers show no record of Thomas having a daughter named Ann though?

I have done a quick check on Familysearch and found the following entries for a possible Robert:

Robert son of Robert Rayner - chr 13 Dec 1655 Bishopsbourne
Robert son of Robert and Margaret Rayner - chr 2 Apr 1643 Charing

Bishopsbourne is about 14 miles from Charing.

There are three possible Roberts who could be the father of the last Robert listed above (born 1643)

There is a Robert Rayner son of John - christened in Charing on 26 Dec 1619. John appears to have married Elizabeth Ansett in 1609 in Charing and also had a daughter named Elizabeth born there in 1617.

There is another Robert Rayner son of John - christened in Egerton on 18 Apr 1619.
There is also a Robert Rayner son of Simon - christened 27 Jun 1602 in Selling.

As for John's ancestry there are several possible candidates:

John son of Samuel Rayner - chr 6 May 1582 Boughton under Blean
John son of John and Anne Rayner - chr 29 Jan 1575 Faversham

There is a burial of a John Rayner in Faversham on 7 May 1576 who may be the second John listed above, or his father.

Both Boughton under Blean and Faversham are about 8 miles from Charing.

What are your thoughts? Did the Charing registers give any sign of Robert's baptism or burial?

Incidentally I've recently been doing some work on Rayners in Folkestone. Some of these seem to have moved to the Faversham area in the late 1590s and early 1600s so there may be an early link there as well.

Many Thanks again for your help

Matt