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Author Topic: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit  (Read 2428 times)

Offline silicondale

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Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« on: Monday 11 February 13 10:33 GMT (UK) »
In my grandfather's passport (issued in Dec. 1944) there are entries for just a single overseas trip: to Belgium from 17 Feb.1945 to 17 June 1945. His occupation in the passport is listed just as 'government official' though we have no idea in what capacity: before the war he had been a self-employed ladies' tailor, and we thought he just served in the Home Guard in the war (he lived in Forest Gate, in east London). He was born in 1882, so at the age of 62 he definitely wasn't a serving soldier. He had served in Belgium in WW1, reaching the rank of second lieutenant by 1918.

The passport page with the Belgian visa also has a stamp "Holder is in possessionn of Allied Expeditionary Force Permit No..... 35269". His departure (17 Feb 1945) and arrival (17 June 1945) immigration stamps were both at Croydon, indicating that he went by air, not by sea. Can anyone suggest where I should start looking to find out what he was doing in Belgium for four months at the end of the war? He certainly wasn't a high-powered diplomat or anything - but maybe a bag-carrier for one. I can't imagine that an ordinary civil servant would have travelled by air.
Henley (Brighton 1820+, Bedfordshire pre-1840),  Vine, Button, Bradford, Bodle (Sussex), Willey (Sheffield, London), Nattriss (London), Wood, Jones, Blaker, Shrimpton (London), Dalby (London 1800+, E.Yorkshire pre-1810), Hillmann, von Thun (London and Hannover)

Offline millymcb

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 26 March 13 22:05 GMT (UK) »
I suppose you have tried searching local newspapers post war to check he didn't appear there - perhaps as a local councillor or something "government official" related? 

Also - I came across this about Supreme HQ Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) - it lists all the documents that were sent to USA when SHAEF closed. It might give you some idea of all the different things they were involved in (other than invading Europe specifically)
http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/research/Finding_Aids/pdf/SHAEF_SGS_Records.pdf

Is it of interest/relevance that SHAEF closed down on 14 July 1945 - about a month after he returned to Croydon.

I wondered if Belgium was significant to his travels and if perhaps he was representing or working for SHAEF rather than just travelling on a AEF Permit - but wiki says "By December 1944, SHAEF had established itself in the Trianon Palace Hotel in Versailles, France. On 26 April 1945 SHAEF moved to Frankfurt." so no obvious link there.

Perhaps someone else may have more to offer

Milly
McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline silicondale

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 March 13 08:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Milly - Many thanks for these suggestions. A thought about the AEF - he flew from Croydon to Belgium, and returned from Belgium, but he was there for 4 months, so it's possible that Belgium wasn't the actual destination. Maybe he was being sent into Germany with the advancing forces, perhaps as an interpreter. Although I don't recall him saying anything about it, it's possible that he spoke some German - my grandmother was German (born in London, but both her parents were 19th century migrants from north Germany).

I just looked at the SHAEF document list- what an incredible resource this must be! Would be great if it could all be made available online!
Henley (Brighton 1820+, Bedfordshire pre-1840),  Vine, Button, Bradford, Bodle (Sussex), Willey (Sheffield, London), Nattriss (London), Wood, Jones, Blaker, Shrimpton (London), Dalby (London 1800+, E.Yorkshire pre-1810), Hillmann, von Thun (London and Hannover)

Offline millymcb

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 March 13 16:12 GMT (UK) »
It might not even have been something as glamorous as an interpreter - could have been something really mundane and civil servantish ???

Very intriguing though!

Milly
McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline silicondale

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 August 13 16:28 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this is strictly an armed forces question. My grandfather Albert Henry Henley served in WW1 (finished the war as a 2nd lieutenant) but was too old to be a serving soldier in WW2. However, at age 61, on 17th February 1945 he went to Belgium for 4 months, returning on 17th June 1945. His passport was issued on 29th December 1944, and a Belgian 'visa de service' (official visa?) on the same date. Possibly his travel was delayed because this was at the height of the Battle of the Bulge. Copy of passport visa page attached.

He had Allied Expeditionary Force authorisation (permit no. 35269) for the travel, and flew from Croydon (according to the immigration stamp in his passport). However, he never said anything about this trip, and there is nobody around now who knows anything about it. We assume that he served in the Home Guard during WW2, but clearly the Belgian trip wasn't for the Home Guard. His peacetime occupation was as a tailor. My grandmother was born in London, a daughter of German immigrants, so possibly he could speak some German. Other than his WW1 service this was the only time he ever went abroad. I don't even know where to start looking for information about this trip. Help!!

- Steve
Henley (Brighton 1820+, Bedfordshire pre-1840),  Vine, Button, Bradford, Bodle (Sussex), Willey (Sheffield, London), Nattriss (London), Wood, Jones, Blaker, Shrimpton (London), Dalby (London 1800+, E.Yorkshire pre-1810), Hillmann, von Thun (London and Hannover)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 August 13 21:57 BST (UK) »
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline millymcb

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #6 on: Friday 30 August 13 00:59 BST (UK) »
Topics Merged

Milly
McBride (Monaghan, Manchester), Derbyshire (Bollington,Cheshire), Knight (Newcastle,Staffs), Smith (Chorley, Lancs & Ireland), Tipladay (Manchester & Yorkshire) ,Steadman (Madeley,Shropshire), Steele (Manchester,Glasgow), Parkinson (Wigan, Lancashire), Lovatt, Cornes & Turner (Staffs) Stott (Oldham, Lancs). All ended up Ardwick, Manchester
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline silicondale

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #7 on: Friday 30 August 13 08:02 BST (UK) »
Oops! Yes, indeed the same grandfather. I did a search and nothing came up, though I had a vague memory of posting it before. I thought it must have been on a different forum. Haven't got any further with it. I downloaded all the SHAEF documents (many megabytes) that are online, but the problem is they aren't searchable - all just scanned as graphic images. Newspaper search will have to await a visit to London - the local paper was the Stratford Express, but no archives online for 1945 that I've been able to find.
Henley (Brighton 1820+, Bedfordshire pre-1840),  Vine, Button, Bradford, Bodle (Sussex), Willey (Sheffield, London), Nattriss (London), Wood, Jones, Blaker, Shrimpton (London), Dalby (London 1800+, E.Yorkshire pre-1810), Hillmann, von Thun (London and Hannover)

Offline silicondale

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Re: Grandfather's visit to Belgium in 1945 - Allied Expeditionary Force Permit
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 03 June 18 22:48 BST (UK) »
Still not much further with this brick wall, except that I have found a handwritten note on the back of a photocopy of his officer commission document (held by a cousin) that the visit to Belgium was for the Ministry of Supply.

Civil servantish stuff, then ! Not sure where to look for anything more. Planning a visit to the National Archive in a couple of weeks, so will ask for advice there.
Henley (Brighton 1820+, Bedfordshire pre-1840),  Vine, Button, Bradford, Bodle (Sussex), Willey (Sheffield, London), Nattriss (London), Wood, Jones, Blaker, Shrimpton (London), Dalby (London 1800+, E.Yorkshire pre-1810), Hillmann, von Thun (London and Hannover)
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