KERR family

[Julie in Ohio]

I wonder if the 'Gant' mentioned might be 'Galt' or 'Gault'. There are families of that name just out of Limavady around that time and up to the present day. 

I think Chestnut Street in Philadelphia may have been a shopping street in the area where many Irish immigrants made their homes when first coming to the US.  I have a photograph of an ancestor  taken  at Miles and Foster  in Chestnut Street in the mid 1800s. 

Shanreagh

Thank you for the surname suggestions. I have gotten nowhere with Gant or Gaunt, but as the handwriting was clear I did not think about other variations. I'm pleased to have more options!

Chestnut Street was a thriving shopping district, which suggests Mr. Hazlett was successful at his trade. He is of interest to me not only because of the specificity of his mention in these notes. I suspect Alexander Kerr may have stayed with the Hazletts for a while before moving on to California, as he later stated he was a native of Pennsylvania (including in his own handwriting on the Great Register of Voters, and in his obituary).

Julie

[Julie in Ohio]

In Ulster 'cousin' usually mean a first cousin but since the writer of the notes was in the U.S. the term 'cousin' could probably refer to a first cousin or far more distant relative in the same or another generation.

That does narrow the options for me, knowing what I know about my U. S. relatives. The un-modified term "cousin" would be used for first cousins, or first cousins once removed who were of about the same age. As Samuel Hazlett must have been about the same age as Alexander's parents, in the context of these notes he would have been referred to as Alexander's father's (or mother's) cousin.

[aghadowey]

Not sure if I understand what you are saying- or perhaps my previous post was unclear- but my U.S. relatives use the term cousin to refer to any sort of cousin- first, second, third, once removed, etc. It would probably be unwise to assume any degree of relationship without proof.

[Julie in Ohio]

Julie, I have a 3x great aunt Susannah Irvine/Irwin who married an Abraham Alcorn, farmer at Drumacarney, near Limavady.  I don't know her dob but guess it to be about 1800.

 I have a family tree you sent me in 2008 that is tantalizing in its similarities, but we just could not make the information fit at that time. Susannah and Abraham had children Eliza, John and James. I am guessing that Abraham is the first name; the notes only say "Susannah married Abraham" but as that followed "Peggy Ann married Jos. Allcorn" I thought it possible Abraham might be an Allcorn as well. But "Jane married Richie" suggests not all the husbands' first names were known.

William was born about 1803 and their first known child (Oliver) was born in 1832, so a sister of Betty born ca 1800 would be a good fit.

Here are Betty's siblings again. Note that it says she was one of nine children and there seem to be at least ten total.

"Wm. Kerr married Elizabeth Irvine (my grandmother) one of nine children. Wm, Alexander, Samuel, Ellen, Peggy Ann, Susannah, Jane {married Ritchie in America/ Michigan near Kalamazoo/had a dau. Jane} and one John (?) who went to England.  Peggy Ann married Jos. Allcorn. Susannah married Abraham [Allcorn/Alcorn?] { Eliza/John/James}."

If you read my previous post about how Samuel Hazlett might be a cousin to Alexander Kerr, you may see that I think the best chance is if I can find a Hazlett-Irvine connection. The other piece of information I have is that Alexander and his brother John seem to have been accompanied by a Leslie Irvine / Irwine (age 18) when they emigrated. All three were listed as laborers. I believe Alexander inflated his age by two years; he also was listed as 18, and John as 19. In the 1841 Londonderry census abstracts I find a possible match for Leslie as child of Samuel and Margaret Irwin. Again, I can't quite fit Leslie into your 2008 tree!

Name:   Leslie Irwine
Arrival Date:   13 May 1856
Age:   18 Years
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1838
Port of Departure:   Londonderry, Ireland
Ship Name:   Superior
Port of Arrival:   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Microfilm Roll Number:   M425_79

[Julie in Ohio]

Not sure if I understand what you are saying- or perhaps my previous post was unclear- but my U.S. relatives use the term cousin to refer to any sort of cousin- first, second, third, once removed, etc. It would probably be unwise to assume any degree of relationship without proof.

I believe I understood you. I have tried to understand the circumstances under which these notes were written, and who might have supplied the information. The handwriting is my grandmother Emma Kerr (1874-1917). Her father Alexander died when she was nine and she was raised by a maternal aunt, and I think she knew little of her father's origins from him. I believe the information came either directly from her aunt Eliza Kerr Fitch or through her schoolteacher daughter Mary Fitch, who visited her in California in 1906. The notes have the appearance of being written on whatever was at hand, so I think they were jotted down during a conversation between my grandmother and her aunt or her cousin. And from everything I know about these women, I believe that they would modify the word "cousin" if anything other than first cousin were meant -- in this context. But as the informant (Eliza or Mary) might have heard the relationship described in the Ulster sense and not known the details, I wanted to have a better understanding of what the word "cousin" meant in Ulster.

Generalizing about the U. S. is tricky, but I can speak from my own experience that when an elderly relative said "cousin" in my childhood they meant a close relative; second cousins were described to me as "almost like family but not." I think in those cases my informants simply did not know the relationship. 

And in my own family we have first cousins who are offset generationally enough that my younger siblings are the same ages (and friends with) the children of our two first cousins. We describe these first cousins once removed as "cousins" outside the family, but even the least genealogically minded, when describing the relationships in the context of these notes, would explain that these are the children of our cousins.

My conclusion from what you say and what I understand from the above is that there are fairly limited possibilities for how Samuel Hazlett and Alexander Kerr could be related. But thank you for pushing me on this. I must be interpreting something wrong, as I have been able to make very little headway in spite of such detailed information.

Julie

[fruitytooty]

I am also doing research on 2 Kerr families and I noticed in a reply a reference to a Samuel Hazlett.
I have a Mary Wlhelmina Hazlett 1854-1949 dau of Rueben A. Hazlett b May 2, 1831 Butler PA and he died in McCurtain, Haskell, OK, USA. His father Rueben Hazlett b 1796 PA and died 1878 Butler, PA he married Mary Duffy b 1795 Butler, PA and died 1886 Winfield, Butler, PA. And this is a family that is in my Kerr search. Any relation to Samuel Hazlett in one of the replies? Fruitytooty 

[Julie in Ohio]

Griffith's Valuation for Carrowclare (1858) lists William Torrens as tenant under James Ogilby. Not sure when lands in Carrowclare would have come up for sale to tenants but it's likely that William Torrens didn't own the farm outright.
Having said that there's a notation that "John Torrens of Carrowclare,  regd. his freehold at Lamavady, 27 Oct.1761" so I'm not sure what went on there.

Irish Landholders (c1876)
"9. William Torrens, address Carrowclare, Newtownlimavady, owned 29 acres."

Thank you for digging these out. Very helpful to see them in the context of just having read the will, which describes disposition of several houses he owns, as well as "real property."
 
 My reading of GV is that in 1858 William Torrens leased 26+ acres land, houses and offices from James Ogilby, owned 2+ acres outright, and in addition leased out three houses to others and owned one unoccupied house. Perhaps Torrens was able to buy Ogilby's property between GV and 1876, thus owning all 29 acres at that time and presumably at the time of his will.

What is new to me is the information about John Torrens of Carrowclare registering his freehold in 1761. That may be the 2+ acres that William Torrens had in 1858, or I suppose Ogilby's ownership could have been temporary during some of the interval, and  a Torrens may have been able to buy it back. In any case, it seems John may have been grandfather or father of William Torrens.

In any case, I think this may answer my question about how the bequests could be paid out within three years and still allow Betty Miller the use during her lifetime of the house formerly occupied by William Torrens' aunt, and also the use of the garden. Perhaps the 26+ acres or some fraction of it was sold after William Torrens' death, and the 2+ acres and house sold after Betty White's death.

It strikes me as odd that relationships are spelled out for most of the individuals mentioned in the will, but with a significant omission. William Miller has been caring for Torrens and is left a substantial bequest in addition to wages. John Miller is identified as William's father. But Betty Miller is not identified by relationship to either Torrens or the two Miller men, yet Torrens clearly was ensuring her welfare.

And yes, the RootsWeb post you found was mine. I notice a couple of errors that could be corrected. Of relevance here, a genealogist in Illinois interested in Torrens' nephew and heir, Robert Martin Torrens, wrote to executor Rev. Kennedy and confirmed that Ballykelly Presbyterian was the "ancestral burying ground" of William Torrens's family. I thought that phrasing odd. I suppose she was interested in distinguishing this family from the many Bann Valley ones.

Thank you again,

Julie

[Julie in Ohio]

I am also doing research on 2 Kerr families and I noticed in a reply a reference to a Samuel Hazlett.
I have a Mary Wlhelmina Hazlett 1854-1949 dau of Rueben A. Hazlett b May 2, 1831 Butler PA and he died in McCurtain, Haskell, OK, USA. His father Rueben Hazlett b 1796 PA and died 1878 Butler, PA he married Mary Duffy b 1795 Butler, PA and died 1886 Winfield, Butler, PA. And this is a family that is in my Kerr search. Any relation to Samuel Hazlett in one of the replies? Fruitytooty

The Samuel Hazlett I am interested in was born in Newtown Limavady 1803 and died in Philadelphia in 1867, so while he could be related to your Hazletts, the relationship would have to go back to Ireland or perhaps even Scotland. The Kerr line I am following began with three brothers coming from Scotland to Londonderry. One had two sons who married in Londonderry but ended up in Illinois, one in 1849 and the other at least by 1870 but perhaps earlier. I suspect it is just coincidence that we have Kerrs with a Hazlett connection.

[pkincaid]

Would you kindly state where in California your Kerrs settled.  This could be helpful.