Grahams of Kilkeel

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Ellen Jane and Margaret's mother

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John & Margaret and Greencastle Street

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HI

Attached are photos of John Graham and Margaret Scott and Ivy (Isabella) and Thomas Logan.  Ivy is Ellen's sister and my mother was always told she was named after her but was called Ella.  She too is known by her second name Sylvia.  Just spoke with my mother who remembers Ellen well.  She visited her a number of times.

Linda

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Hi Linda - at least we have the same pic of John & Margaret and it's good to have a photo of Ivy which I shall show my mother-in-law.

Also, I think that I am aware of your mum - she is Dave Macs sister in law and I have you both on my Ancestry tree courtesy of him (and you use your second name as well!).

David

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Hi again Linda - just been working through your post, very interesting!  Are you saying you have copy of Graham/Scott marriage in 1875?  If so, any chance of posting a copy/pic as I would love to see it.  As you know, there are records/references to John Graham, mother = Margaret Irvine but that John was born 1847 and father was Joseph Graham.  As I said, my info of past Grahams came from Mrs Annet in Kilkeel but I never established from her where she gained the information.  I remember that I did ask her if there were any gravestones in the churchyard and she said 'no'.  I also wrote to the Mourne Pres Church but never received any reply and think I got the impression from her that what she said was all anybody knew and not to bother the church.  If you were thinking of going to Kilkeel, visiting her might yield answers (my last letter didn't get any reply).  Equally, if what Maud's son said was true and he left them, this might explain things.  My mother-in-law clearly remembers going to the church with the family when she visited.

Have you found any record for John Graham's death which might fix his birth?

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Hi David,

I have a copy of the wedding certificate and am happy to share it, but need to find where I put it first.  I did find a copy of the death certificate of John Graham but not his birth certificate.  There is no record of a birth certificate at the Proni ( I checked that last time - maybe destroyed in the fire).  So my next plan was to check with the church.  I will ask my mother about graves and let you know.  It may be that he was buried in another church.  My mother should know where her grandfather was buried.  I think his father was either John or James (from the marriage certificate but we can check that when I find it).
It has been frustrating not to able to get any further back.  We did meet one of the Kilkeel relatives when my grandmother was still alive but didn't get any information from her.  My grandmother thought she had the family bible but she said she didn't.

I will post the info I have as soon as I find where I put it when I tided up.

Linda

Ps David Mac is my uncle (my dad's half brother)  He has done a lot of work on the McMenemy tree.

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I did find a copy of the death certificate of John Graham but not his birth certificate.  There is no record of a birth certificate at the Proni ( I checked that last time - maybe destroyed in the fire).  So my next plan was to check with the church.  I will ask my mother about graves and let you know.  It may be that he was buried in another church.  My mother should know where her grandfather was buried.  I think his father was either John or James (from the marriage certificate but we can check that when I find it).

No civil registrations (births, marriage, deaths) were destroyed- registration of births started 1864 so if you mean John Graham born 1851 then there would never have been a birth certificate for him.

It may be that there never was a headstone (most Presbyterian churches do not keep burial records although there may be a map showing the burial plots). Also try the local Church of Ireland since Presbyterians were entitled to burial there in early days and many families continued using the same plots- however, Presbyterian deaths may or may not be listed in the C. of I. burial register (many of these sent to Dublin for safekeeping were destroyed so many only go back to 1870s/1880s).

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I have a scanned pdf of the marriage certificate of John Graham but an error occurs when I try to load it.

Linda

[aghadowey]

You are only allowed to post a small portion of the certificate for deciphering purposes.