L/U Req.-Hull Univ. Archives-Customs House Reg's-barques ELLERGILL, TORONTO-1850

[Westoe]

Hello all,

As near as I can find, Hull Customs House Registers are in Hull University Archives. Would anyone be able to take a look for me to find out the 1850 ownership of two barques - ELLERGILL and TORONTO?

From National Archives file BT 162/19, TORONTO was first registered in Hull as #30 in 1834. Her registry was changed to Shields on 10 June 1850 when she was sold to South Shields owners. I'd like to know from whom those new owners bought her.

From the same source, ELLERGILL was registered as #27 in 1839. I'd like to know who her owners were.

Can anyone help? I hope so. It would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Westoe

[warkworth]

Westoe

I'm unlikely to get into Hull History Centre, which now holds the University's archives, for a while, but the online catalogue has one reference to a ship called the Toronto. I realise this isn't  what you actually wanted - and considering the date, it's probably a successor to the one you're talking about, anyway.

Document reference: U DEW/3/166 concerns the sale of the Toronto in 1923, part of the records of the Ellerman's Wilson Line.  You could ask the HHC for a copy if it's of any interest.

I couldn't find a reference to the Ellergill.

All the best
Joyce

[Westoe]

Hello Joyce,

Thank you for this reply. No, the reference in the online catalogue is to a different TORONTO. I'm sure there wouldn't be any catalogue reference to either of these - they are simply two of thousands in the annual lists of ships registered to the port of Hull, but those Customs House Registers do record the names of owners, which is what I'm after. But (smile) I've been wanting to know this for a very long time, so I won't mind waiting until the next time you are going there.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Treetotal]

Hi...The Ellergill is mention in your other post:

25,350      Ellergill,       sh    ?360    1813 Hull          …
John Snowden, Joseph Logan Thompson, Henry Lee



http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=194825.40

Carol

[Westoe]

Hello Carol,

Yes, you're correct. Those people, all from South Shields owned ELLERGILL for many years, but never changed her registration which is puzzling, as *all* their other vessels were registered on the Tyne. They are the same people who bought TORONTO in 1850.

One possible explanation for ELLERGILL is that she had *minority* owner(s) in Hull and that, in consideration of that, she was left registered to the port of Hull. We have a *very tentative possible connexion* to a family with similar names, but variant spellings, in Hull. If it should turn out that members of that family were partial owners of ELLERGILL and/or previous owners of TORONTO, that would certainly strengthen the possibility of familial relationship.

There is a column for ownership in Lloyd's Register of Shipping entries, but because of the space limitations, not all names are listed. Ship ownership was divided into 64 shares and I have many instances in my files of partial owners having as few as 1, 2, 3 or 4 shares in a vessel.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Dear all,

I'm posting to resurrect this query from myself from three years ago as I am still needing that look-up. Can someone here help me please?

It will be quite straightforward and quick if anyone is visiting Hull History Centre.  Barque TORONTO will be entry #30 in the 1834 Hull Customs House Register. Barque ELLERGILL will be entry #27 in the 1839 Hull Customs House Register.

Each entry should have writing on both sides of the page. For both vessels, I would like the identities of the owners.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

Hello again,

I'm still hoping that someone will volunteer to do my two quick lookups. Those registers are on microfilm at Hull History Centre. Here is the description from the online catalogue:

"Hull’s shipping registers
Recording details of vessels and their ownership from 1804-1994 these registers give tonnage, dimensions, place and date of construction, rig, number of decks and masts. The registers cast light on the transition from sail to steam and indicate how and when ships were converted for use during the two World Wars.

As they also record the owners of vessels and often give occupation and places of residence, they could also be studied to indicate the occupational and social profile of the town's ship-owners and patterns of investment in shipping. Some vessels had a large number of owners and shares changed hands frequently and therefore identifying owners at a particular time can sometimes involve tracing vessels through subsequent re-registrations. Vessels owned by joint stock companies simply have the company name, not those of individual shareholders. The shipping registers of ships registered in the port of Hull can be found at C DPC/1 and cover 1804-1994. The registers have been indexed by ship’s name up to the 1940. This work is ongoing. All of the registers are only available to view on microfilm."

Cheers,
Westoe (thousands of miles away in central Canada)