DNA testing, Knapman family

[DJK-Throwleigh]

I have recently added the Knapman surname to the Devon DNA project, and am posting this message to encourage others who may have been considering DNA testing to do the same. Because of the type of DNA test that I took (looking at the Y chromosome) it’s only male Knapmans who can make the comparison.

All of the research that I have done strongly suggests that virtually all Knapmans have their roots in Devon (the exceptions being from Prussia). I have posted a document tracing all known Knapman families in the middle of the 19th century, showing how they may (or may not) have been related to one another. Anyone who is interested can either google “Wider Knapman Family” or, if that doesn’t work, go to the ‘Genealogies’ part of the Devon section of the genuki.org website from where it can be downloaded as a PDF.

I would particularly encourage any Knapmans whose roots include the following combinations of early 19th century wife’s surname and parish / district to consider participating in the Devon DNA project:
Bidder (Devonport)
Crews (Berry Pomeroy)
Hannaford (Ashburton, then London)
Green (Galmpton)
Jordan (South Tawton)
Pillar (Bridford)
Powlesland (South Tawton)
Sercombe (Dunsford)

However, anyone else would also be really welcome to join in (because the more evidence that is assembled, the stronger the conclusions that can be drawn). If anyone thinks they might be interested, please respond, and I can send more background about the testing process. If anyone has Knapman roots but can’t get trace them back to the 1850s, I’d be pleased to help if I can.

[JaneyCanuck]

And can I just add an eager invitation to anyone with ANY Devon surname who is considering YDNA testing, or who has done it, to join the Devon project at Family Tree DNA (and the surname project for the surname in question)?

I have a very common surname in Devon in the case of one of my lines, but alas, no matches in Devon -- or anywhere else in the world, despite how common the name is all over the English-speaking world, and how many people there are in the US with the name who are trying to identify their English roots (several hundred in the FTDNA surname project in question).

A link to the Devon project I assume you're referring to?

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Devon/

and the surnames and YDNA results for current project members:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Devon/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

(I don't suppose Knapp is one of your variants? My other parent's male-line surname is rooted in Wiltshire back to the 1500s and likely beyond, but the best matches it is getting at FTDNA is a clan of Knapps in the US! Of course they are more likely the Prussian variety. )

[DJK-Throwleigh]

Thanks for your message.

I used to believe that the name Knapman was associated with flint knapping (the making of arrow and spear points, and subsequently the supply of strikers for flintlock firearms and the production of building materials). Knapping was an important activity in places such as Brandon in Suffolk, and some parts of Norfolk and Sussex. However, the 1841 census shows that almost 88% of the 471 Knapmans (or close variants of the name) in Great Britain at that time were living in Devon, while there were no Knapmans in Suffolk or Sussex, and just one family group in Norfolk, who had brought the name from Devon. At that time there were also 112 persons called Knapper in Britain, 91 of them in Staffordshire; 1,051 called Knapp (over half of them in Middlesex, Berkshire, Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Hampshire); and 564 called Napper (two thirds of them in Sussex, Somerset and Middlesex). If anyone took their name from knapping, these seem to me to be stronger candidates.

If the name does not come from flint knapping, the most likely derivation seems to be the term knap which is widely used in Devon to signify a hill, or the crest of a hill, and which has its origins in the Old English word cnæpp meaning top, and possibly the Old Norse word knappr meaning knob. This conclusion is endorsed by ‘Patronymica Britannica’ , which describes Knapman as meaning “a dweller upon a knap or hill”. However, this begs the question of why the name is not more widely distributed.

[JaneyCanuck]

And thanks for yours and your PM! You have shed some light on why I might be YDNA matching with Knapps -- possible shared Wiltshire roots. Worth investigating!

But my Devon DNA seems to be a hopelessly tangled mess. 

If we can corral more Devonish people into getting on board the DNA train, who knows how many mysteries we might solve!

[Shailee]

Not DNA but I have ventured recently back into my partners tree and he has Knapman

George Knapman b. abt 1817 Spreyton, Devon
he immigrated to Australia

   
George Knapman
B: abt 1823 in Spreyton, Devon, England
D:16 September 1900 in Heidelberg, Victoria, Australia
M:
Elizabeth Grant Wyatt B: 21 January 1827 in Ashburton, Devon, England


Parents
Joseph Knapman
 
Sussanah Carthew

[DJK-Throwleigh]

If you look at the Genuki.org.uk website and navigate from the homepage to England then Devon, you will see within the text of Note 1, just below the thumbnail map of Devon, a link to 'Genealogies'. If you follow that link you will see that I have posted two Knapman documents there which may be of interest to you. The document covering 1650-1850 contains the family from Spreyton / Ashburton, and you can work your way back through several generations of their probable origins.

Hope this helps.

[Shailee]

Thanks DJK-Throwleigh that looks like them indeed! and has gave me alot more to go looking onto now, is interesting reading that George was a apprentice he upon immigration started his own blacksmith business in Heidelberg in Melbourne VIC  and from what I have read resulted ina  respected business man

he also married in Ashburton I found on his and his wifes death certificates too

Marriage to Elizabeth Grant Wyatt
1848 abt
Ashburton, Devon, England

Elizabeth and their 4 eldest children immigrated in 1857 and I found George came 2 years earlier
These 4 were born abroad

Elizabeth Georgina Knapman
1850 – 1873
George Knapman
1852 – 1923
Maria Knapman
1854 –
Mary Ann Knapman
1856 – 1925

[Shailee]

Jane Knapman Smith
1859 – 1935

William Wyatt Knapman
1860 – 1909

Susanna Rosena Knapman
1863 –

Harriet Knapman
1864 – 1885

Emily Knapman
1866 – 1868

These are the other children missing from that doc for Geogre and Elizabeth 1848

Why one child has surname Smith I cant explain !
But heres her birth and death

Birth
1859
Heidelberg, Victoria, Australia
Surname: SMITH Given Names: Jane Event: B Spouse Surname/Father: Geo Knapman Spouse Gvn Names/Mother: Elizth Grant WYATT Age: Sex: Birth Place: HBERG Death Place: Year: 1859 Reg Number: 6843 Denomination: Parish: Fiche:

Death
1935
10 Dec
Age: 76
Murrumbeena, Victoria, Australia
Surname: KNAPMAN Given Names: Jane Father: Knapman George Mother: Elizth WYATT Death Place: MBEENA Age: 77 Age Code: Year: 1935 Reg Number: 10873 Event: D

[Sandbunny]

Shailee
I think I can add to your Knapman family - my wife is descended from Maria Mary Knapman born 1852 Devon and died 13/05/1924 - she married George Andrew Ray 25/19/1880 in Fitzroy, Victoria and moved to Sydney in the late 1880s.
Thanks
Garry