Author Topic: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852  (Read 3588 times)

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 16 March 13 22:08 GMT (UK) »
John Cole, bachelor married Elizabeth Perkins, BOTP, Horselydown St John, by banns, 20 Aug 1799, John signed, Elizabeth by mark, witnessed by Andrew Newland & Sarah Cole,
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
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Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

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Offline jomcd967

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 March 13 22:27 GMT (UK) »
Both baptised on the 3 Jul 1803, St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey, to John & Elizabeth Cole, Cooper, Staples Court

Susannah Sarah Cole born 20 Oct 1800
William Cole born 6 Apr 1803

A shame they weren't the other way around, but that has to him, you can't fit another birth in there really.
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

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Offline hawk64

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 17 March 13 10:33 GMT (UK) »
William Cole's details are fairly easy to find but I haven't found any birth/baptism or death for Henry Thomas Cole. This, of course, is good as it makes my theory more believeable.

Everything fits. But the cruncher is that he must have been about 16 when he married Ms McDonald. How likely or possible is that?

Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated.

Online carol8353

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 17 March 13 10:42 GMT (UK) »
William Cole's details are fairly easy to find but I haven't found any birth/baptism or death for Henry Thomas Cole. This, of course, is good as it makes my theory more believeable.

Everything fits. But the cruncher is that he must have been about 16 when he married Ms McDonald. How likely or possible is that?

Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated.

There is nothing on the marriage entry that says he was a minor (aged under 21) he would have needed parental permission to marry and his father would have had to sign the marriage index to say that he approved it.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline hawk64

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 17 March 13 13:42 GMT (UK) »
That's a very valid point.

Going by census records, Elizabeth McDonald was born around 1800/01. So she is only 18 or 19 at the time of marriage. Would she have been considered a minor? There's no parental permission for her, either.

And before I head off to bed, let me run this by you. There's no risk William Cole was 16 in 1819.
But William Cole didn't marry Elizabeth - Henry Thomas Cole did. Is age the reason he married under another name? Just trying to think outside the square.

Offline hawk64

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 06 April 13 02:02 BST (UK) »
I have received a death certificate for a Elizabeth Cole. She died on 30/9/1869 at the Stepney Union Workhouse.
The Elizabeth Cole I have been chasing appears on the 1861 census, but nothing after that.

It states that she was 68, which tallies with the census information that she was born around 1800.

The best part is that also states that she is the widow of William Cole, seaman. The Elizabeth Cole I am chasing was married to a Henry Thomas Cole, who I believe changed his name to William in Australia.

I understand these names are common but I have a scenario where everything seems to tally - apart from them both being underage at the time of the marriage bann.

The question I would like to ask you folks with more skill in this field than me -
the banns of Henry Thomas Cole and Elizabeth McDonald were dated 25/1/1819 at Aldgate -
but did they actually marry?

Any thoughts or suggestions would, as always, be appreciated.

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 06 April 13 05:45 BST (UK) »
Hi Hawk64,
It is their actual marriage on the 25 Jan 9 at St Boltoph.
Married by banns on that date, Henry Thomas Cole, bachelor and Elizabeth McDonald, BOTP, the with consent of their parents part is crossed out, it wouldn't have been if they were known to be underage. Both signed their names and I'm sorry, but I can't decipher the witness names. There banns would have been read for the three weeks prior to their wedding date.
Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline hawk64

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 06 April 13 06:02 BST (UK) »
Thank you for that.

Elizabeth, going by census records, must have been under 21 when she married. I believe Cole was, too, and marrying under a different name.

How easy/difficult would it have been for them to 'get away'with their underage marriage?

Offline jomcd967

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Re: Meredith: Samuel Driver and Mary Ann m. 1852
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 06 April 13 09:24 BST (UK) »
We're their parents alive a the time of their marriage?
Jo
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.