Author Topic: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)  (Read 15158 times)

Offline blamcca

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #9 on: Monday 01 April 13 07:18 BST (UK) »
I'll try to find some more on Margaret.

Those Inglis' you found are certainly mine. Janet Inglis (nee Duncan) actually died in Broken Hill in Mar 1905, but her headstone suggests she died in 1904. According to her death registration her parents were John and Jane though, I wonder who the informant was?? Perhaps I should think about getting her death certificate.
Their daughter, Mary Inglis is who I am a descendent of.

I should really commit these Scottish Naming patterns to memory, the Scottish were so predictable!!  ;D

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #10 on: Monday 01 April 13 12:36 BST (UK) »
Just to keep it straight in my head  ;D......
G1)    John HEATLIE m Betsy KNOX, =
G2)    Jane HEATLIE b abt 1809 m  Alexander DUNCAN, =
G3)    1) Janet Knox DUNCAN 1830-1905,  m 1852:  Samuel INGLIS
         2) Margaret DUNCAN
         3) Walter Davidson DUNCAN m Margaret Marcshall 1, m Margaret O Johnson/Stewart

I'd bet Alexander Duncan INGLIS was the informant for Janet's 1905 death?  He died Kingscte (Yankilla district) in SA 1919 but the Newspaper report of his death said he was late of Broken Hill - so maybe Janet had gone to live with him in her older age?   Very possibly, Alexander D. (or whoever did inform on Janet's death) has mixed up the generations  - naming her grandfather John as her father, instead of correctly, her father Alexander.

When Janet  married Samuel INGLIS (who was born in Berwickshire) it was in  Midlothian 1852,  and I wondered why there…. tradition is to marry in the parish of the bride, and from all acounts that appeared to be St Boswells /Ancrum area of Roxb.  I wondered if Samuel was based in Midlothian - Banns can be called in the differing Parishes of bride & groom and oft-times there are what looks like 2 marriages on the IGI - except one is Banns (where the marriage was NOT formalised and is the Grooms Parish), and the other - the slightly later dated one -  is when the marriage was added to the Banns and is the Bride's parish.

Anyway! A bit of lateral digging about and the place of marriage makes sense to me after working out the following:

A sibling for Jane HEATLIE  DUNCAN:
BIRTH:  Williiam HATLIE Chr 23 Dec 1803, Lilliesleaf
Parents: John HATLIE & Betty KNOX

MARRIAGE of that sibling:
William HEATLIE & Elizabeth BRICE, 23 May 1834, St Boswells.

BIRTH to that marriage: William Knox HAITLIE b 14 Oct 1841, chr 13 Dec 1841, Cockpen Midlothian
Parents: William HAITLIE & Elizabeth BRYCE

Census 1841: Kirkhill, Cockpen, Midlothian
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
William HEATTIE 35, Ag Lab - Y
Elizabeth HEATTIE 35 - N
John HEATTIE 3 - N
Elizabeth KNOX 70 - N
Elizabeth DUNCAN 12 - N

Census 1851: House at Trotters Bridge, Cockpen, Midlthian
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Head: William HEATLY 45, Ag Lab, b Ancrum, Roxb.
Wife: Elizabeth HEATLY 45, b Carstairs, Lanarkshire
Son: John HEATLY 13, b Ancrum (abt 1838)
Son: William K HEATLY 9, b Cockpen
Mother-In-Law: Mary CHRISTIE** 75, b Libberton, Lanarkshire
Visitor: Elizabeth STARK 5, b Borthwick, Midlothian

Note: ** we have Elizabeth as BRYCE maiden name, not CHRISTIE - and it will definitely be her maiden name that is being used in the 1834 Marriage & 1841 birth of son WK (even if she was married previously and a widow).  Possibilities are that:
   1) Wife  Elizabeth in 1851 is a 2nd wife, same forename (and stepmother the boys)
and
            2) Mary CHRISTIE is therefore the mother of wife2
or,
   3) Mary CHRISTIE is the mother of the wife who is Elizabeth BRYCE - and Mary  is
                 doing what was very common is Scotland, using her maiden name. It was  common 
                 practice with widows and and also, perhaps to a lesser extent, with married women,
or                               
   4) Mother-in-law- means Step-Mother, (Step relationships often termed  as "-in law") and
                  therefore she could be William's mother (but from the 1841, we know this is not likely
                  in this case)
   
Personally I plump for 3). And I think in the 1841 Census, that is exactly what Elizabeth KNOX is doing too - ie:I'd say  she is Betsy KNOX HEATLIE, widow of John HEATLIE, mother of  William and of your Janet HEATLIE DUNCAN.

The Scottish naming pattern is great! Always exceptions to a rule of course, but it was a stronly adhered to rule. It did lessen over time and/or if families moved away from Scotland, especially to the States, they often weakened or completely departed from the pattern earlier than may have happened had they stayed in Scotland.

AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline blamcca

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #11 on: Monday 01 April 13 22:42 BST (UK) »
Wow Ambly once again you have found great things. There were other children on familysearch of John and Betty/Betsy Heatlie, but they only have John Heatlie on them, Betty is only mentioned on William's baptism.

Also just to say I am not too sure about Jane Heatlie Duncan's birth you have 1809 there I believe it is more around 1800.

The informant would either be Alexander or John McClintock (her son-in-law) if it was family. This is the story I know about the Inglis'. Samuel and Janet ended up living at Elatina, SA (near Blinman in the middle of nowhere these days). Then Samuel suddenly died in 1887, so Janet went to live with her daughter Mary (recently married to John McClintock) the new McClintock family moved around a lot, John worked for a railway company and he went where ever they needed him. Apparently he went up to Northern Territory at one point. Anyway they eventually settled in Broken Hill, NI am not sure why Alexander went there, perhaps just to be with his mother. Anyway that is the story I know not sure if there is any truth in it. Sadly Mary McClintock (Janet's daughter) died in 1900 of enteritis.

I have a copy of their marriage banns: 'At Edinburgh, the 28th day of March 1852. It is hereby certified , That Samuel Inglis, Miller, residing at Cockburn Mill, Parish of Duns (Berwickshire) and Janet Duncan residing at 30 India Street, Saint Stephens Parish, Edinburgh, Daughter of Alexander Duncan, Gardener, St. Boswells'
So Janet was living in Edinburgh, I am not sure how she met Samuel, but I do know Samuel's famiy lived in Roxburgh for a few years when Samuel was just a boy. Also according to the banns Janet's father was a Gardener!!
Also this is their proper marriage: '9 April 1852- Samuel Inglis, Miller, Cockburn Mill and Janet Knox Duncan, daughter of the late Alexander Duncan, Baker, St. Stephen's Parish, Edinburgh, were married the 9 April 1852 before William Dods and William Redpath'
Theses two documents are a bit contradictory, the banns was copied from the original, but the actual marriage was copied from a transcription from a book, that may have been edited.

I am not sure whether you noticed or not but in 1841 there is an Elizabeth Duncan living with William Heattie and his family. This is probably Janet's elder sister who I though must have died because she wasn't living with her mother and siblings.

I think you may be right I have found a lot of Scottish widows resorted to their maiden name.

I had more to write but I am out of time I will write the rest later.

Offline blamcca

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 04 April 13 08:05 BST (UK) »
I got Jane Duncan's death certificate.
The informant was her daughter, who was Margaret Douglas, I have found evidence of a Margaret Duncan and John Douglas having several children in Roxburgh in the roughly right years.
Her parents were given as John Heatlie and Elizabeth Knox (both deceased) and she was apparently the widow of Alexander Duncan, Outdoor Labourer, perhaps Margaret never knew what her father did?? It appears that he died quite early.


Offline Tom Langley

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 25 July 13 13:01 BST (UK) »
Hello, I am related to the Knoxs of Lilliesleaf. I have come across Elizabeth Heatlie nee Knox in my reasearch but havent linked her up yet. I think She is probably a cousin of my great x6 grandfather Ebenezer Knox who was born 1769 Lilliesleaf.

Tom
Langley, Broughton, Taylor, Broad, Cooper, Owen, Bennion, Yorke, Knox, Norcup, Holland, Brookes, White, Davies, Huntbach, Bowler, Barnett.

Offline worth

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 13 July 14 18:36 BST (UK) »
Hi
William Heatlie (son of John Heatlie and Elizabeth Knox) also married Jessie Brownlee in 1856 in Edinburgh, so Elizabeth Brice his first wife must have died sometime after the 1851 census. Jessie had died in 1862 in Cockpen Edinburgh. I cant find William or Jessie in 1861 census.
Dawn

Offline blamcca

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 08:41 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the extra information worth.

Are you a descendent of William?

Blake

Offline worth

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 15 July 14 09:29 BST (UK) »
Hi
No, I am a Heatlie but from a different line. I am working on trying to find a connection between them all and your above Heatlie family is the one I am working on at the moment.
Dawn

Offline blamcca

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Re: Jane Duncan (nee Haitley)
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 16 July 14 02:13 BST (UK) »
Dawn, I know I may be wishing too much but have you made a connection between this family in the respect of William's father John. I haven't been able to make an absolute connection.

Blake