George ABBOT and Betsy SCOTT - PARENTS OF BOTH???

[Sandidel]

Thanks for your help

[Sandidel]

Sorry to be a bother but did the Laws have any other children?

[1JC]

Hi, did you manage to find the parents of Betsy Scott and George Abbot? They are my Great Great Grandparents and I have been trying to find their parents. I came across your post in my search.

What I have found is...
For Betsy.
Death record 18 Jan 1882, Widow of George Scott Cabinetmaker. Father John Scott. Mother Isabella Scott (McNaughton). John's occupation looks like Major but I can't be sure.
Marriage record 12 June 1838. George Abbot Cabinetmaker and Betsey Scott daughter of Jo Scott. It looks like Jo to me but not 100% sure.
Birth Record 17 Nov 1811 (as Betty Scott) Daughter of John Scott and Isabel McNaughton.

So it seems likely that Betsy's parents are John Scott and Isabella McNaughton, However I cannot find evidence of a Marriage or nail down the births of either John or Isabella. There is also a birth record of a sister to Betsy - Mary Scott born 29 May 1814.

It may be possible that the John Scott was the son of Walter Scott Esq. (b 1729, d 1799, married to Anne Rutherford) and brother to Sir Walter Scott (b 1771). John was a Bvt. Major in the army (73 or 79th regiment) b abt 1768, d 1816. An entry for him in rootsweb states that he had a career in the Army and did not marry. His death record 13 May 1816 Major John Scott of the 73rd regiment & son of the late Walter Scott Esq. If this is the father of Betsy and Mary he was fairly old (43 and 46 respectively) when they were born and died when they were fairly young (4 and 2 respectively).

So all that looks promising but no where certain in my mind.

As for George Abbot. His death record states that he was a cabinet maker and married to Betsy Scott. he lived at 33 Cowgate, Dundee. His father was William Abbot Carver & Guilder(I think) and Mother looks like Jessie Abbot but I can't be sure and I cant make out her maiden name. I have not been able to make any further progress on George's parents.

Can you or anyone else provide any more info on this?

[Forfarian]

So it seems likely that Betsy's parents are John Scott and Isabella McNaughton, However I cannot find evidence of a Marriage or nail down the births of either John or Isabella.

Missing records are no unusual in the early 19th century. If you can't find the marriage on Scotland's People there's a high likelihood that no record of it has survived.

Have you looked at the originals of the baptisms of Betty and Mary on Scotland's People? What (if anything) more do they tell you?

It may be possible that the John Scott was the son of Walter Scott Esq.

Why do you think so? What evidence is there for such a connection?

As for George Abbot. His father was William Abbot Carver & Guilder(I think) and Mother looks like Jessie Abbot but I can't be sure and I cant make out her maiden name.

Can you post an extract from the certificate that shows George's parents' names and see if we can decipher it?

I see that George Abbot and Elizabeth Scott had a son Thomas Alexander Abbot, born in Dundee in 1855. You are in luck! 1855 certificates contain far more information than earlier baptism or later birth certificates, so go to Scotland's People and get a copy of it.

I see from the index to the census that there were several other children - Betsy, George, Jane, Charles, Robert and Mary. There may also have been a John who died in infancy. So it seems that this family was not into getting the children's baptisms recorded. This may point to them belonging to a religious denomination whose records are not readily available, for example Episcopalian.

If there really was a connection to Sir Walter Scott you would expect them to name a son Walter.

[1JC]

Thanks very much Forfarian.

I could not find baptism records for Betty (B 1811) or Mary Scott (b 1814) on Scotland's people but found birth records for both. The records just state that they are daughters of John Scott and Isabel McNaughton - I have attached the records.

The only reason for thinking John Scott was the son of Walter Scott Esq (father of Sir Walter) was that a lot of family documentation state that Betsy was a niece of Sir Walter.

The certificate of George Abbot's death is attached - I will be very impressed if you can decipher his mothers name and maiden name.
After I sent my original post I looked up William's occupation and ended up finding him in the Howff Graveyard records and from there his death record (d 19 Sept 1837 Dundee age 72) and from there his birth record (b 31/5/1765) with father = Alexander and Mother Elisth Preston. I still cannot find out who George's mother was.

I have a "copy" of Thomas Alexander Abbot's 1855 birth attached but I cannot read it. I do struggle to read some of these old hand written records.

I see what you mean about there not being a child of Betsy and George named Walter. However Alexander (maternal grandfather) only made it to the second name of their 4th son.

Thanks again for your help here - I will be impressed if you can decipher some of the records attached.

[Annette7]

The occupation for John Scott on Betsy's death certificate is Mason (not major).   There's a second word which I think is a shortened form of 'journeyman'.

Annette

[Rosinish]

Is it possible please to upload in any format other than pdf. as I can't manipulate pdf. for better clarity?

jpeg/bmp/gif/tiff/png

jpeg would be best.

Annie

[1JC]

OK, attached are 2 jpg files
one with the very poor 1855 birth of Thomas Alexander Abbot birth record and the second with George Abbot's death that has the name and maiden name of his mother.  Good luck!

I think the rest may be of sufficient quality in PDF but let me know if you need anything else.

[Forfarian]

First, those records of Betty and Mary are from the Registers of Baptisms. Before the start of civil registration in 1855, the only records were those kept by the churches. In most cases, if only one date is shown, it will be the date of baptism rather than the date of birth, but quite often both were recorded, or the date of birth was explicitly stated.

Strelitz is a farm and an area of woodland west of Burrelton in the parish of Cargill. See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO1836. The first edition of the six-inch Ordnance Survey map shows three or four buildings there. See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.5116&lon=-3.3201&layers=5&b=1

I agree that John Scott's occupation is shown as Mason (jour) i.e. a mason employed by a master and paid by the day. I also think that this rules out him being the brother of Sir Walter who became an Army officer. I am intrigued that you say that 'family documentation' says she was a niece of Sir Walter. What form does this 'family documentation' take?

George's mother's name looks like Shearing to me, or possibly Skirving. Bear in mind that the given names Janet and Jessie are interchangeable. It might be worth looking up other deaths of Abbot(s) in Dundee to see if any of them might be siblings.

Re the 1855 birth certificate, any time you get an image from Scotland's People that you can't read, contact them and ask for a re-scan. There are links on the results pages for doing this.

I see what you mean about there not being a child of Betsy and George named Walter. However Alexander (maternal grandfather) only made it to the second name of their 4th son.

Can you be 100% certain that there was no older son named Alexander who had died as a child?