Author Topic: Looking for henry marsh in chichester  (Read 6378 times)

Offline eddie marsh

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« on: Friday 03 May 13 13:48 BST (UK) »
Hi,
  I'm new to this so sorry if I'm doing it wrong! ::). I have been tracing my family and have come to a dead end. I have traced the Marsh side back to my great grand father Joseph Marsh with some confidence to a marriage record in 1883 to Emma Parker. On this Joseph's father is listed as Henry Marsh, but I can't find any other records for him on the usual search sites. The marriage took place at st Peter-The Great church, chichester 30 jun 1883. Josephs birth date is 1853. I have found a birth record for Henry at the same church on 10 jun 1808 with parents William and maria. This will add up as it makes Henry 45 when Joseph was born. However I could do with a little mare evidence to prove my theory. Can anyone help please with confirmation or any other info as it looks like this church was a focal point to my family. Any help would be much appreciated, Regards Eddie

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,804
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #1 on: Friday 03 May 13 14:28 BST (UK) »
Hello and welcome :)

Have you had a look for Joseph in the censuses - does he give Chichester as his birthplace? If you've found him prior to marriage, who is he with?

Another question - what was Henry Marsh's occupation stated to be on Joseph's marriage record, and who were the witnesses? What was Joseph's occupation and address at the time of marriage?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,804
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 May 13 14:36 BST (UK) »
I've now had a look and it seems Joseph is easily found after marriage, claiming a birthplace of Chichester abt 1852-3, but tricky to trace before his marriage.

If you've had similar difficulties, the details from the marriage certificate will be all the more important if that is the earliest concrete sighting of Joseph. Was he said to be a bachelor?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Roy G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,176
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 May 13 15:37 BST (UK) »
I note that when Joseph (labourer of Tower Street) and Emma's son Henry was baptised in 1885 Joseph gave his full name as, Joseph Henry Marsh.     He was Joseph on all subsequent baptisms for their children (1887 up to 1900) which were at St. Bartholemews Church in Chichester.  Having failed to find Joseph on any earlier documentation, one line of thought is that he could have initially been listed as Henry in those earlier censuses and records.   FreeBMD however, does not seem to have a birth registered for him as Joseph or Henry Marsh in the Chichester area around 1853, although there is a birth registered in Chichester in 1851 for a Henry MARCH who appears to come from Bury nearby.   

There being few other alternatives, you might be interested in the 1851 Chichester census which shows a 26 year old unmarried Charlotte Marsh with her 7 year old son William Leonard Marsh. SFHG and IGI record his baptism at St Martins Chichester in 1843, to Charlotte Marsh, single woman.  Charlotte, who had been baptised at St. Peters Chichester in Nov 1824, was the daughter of Thomas & Mary Marsh.  You could investigate to see if Joseph was a further base born child of Charlotte's, who may appear in the GRO birth registers under his father's surname (rather than Marsh) and is then entered in the 1861-1881 censuses under the surname of who ever had responsibility for his care. 

It is not uncommon in those circumstances to only revert to a parent's surname when finally marrying. For example, there is a double record for the birth of Charlotte's son William Leonard Marsh in FreeBMD 1843, for he also appears in those records as William 'Leonard.'  When he marries later in Westbourne near Chichester in 1864 he is back to being William Leonard Marsh.  Charlotte and William L Marsh also appear in the Chichester census indexes for 1861, but I do not know whether they were together or if Charlotte had any other children with her.  They appear in the reverse order and I speculate William was just in the care of Charlotte's parents by then.  Finding that, or those two entries in the 1861 census might be a rewarding line of further investigation. 

  Roy G

Offline Roy G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,176
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 07 May 13 08:32 BST (UK) »
I thought I would add that if Charlotte Marsh did turn out to be the mother of your Joseph, there is a contradictory entry for her death.  FreeBMD states that in 1868 a 43 year old Charlotte Marsh died in Chichester (therefore an ideal match because born c 1825) whilst the SFHG transcript of that record states she was 78.     Roy G

Offline eddie marsh

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 07 May 13 09:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately I don’t have the marriage certificate. I am pretty certain that the records I have for Joseph are correct from Family Search for post marriage years. This shows Joseph Marsh born 1853 marrying Emma Parker, (born 1858) on 30 June 1883 at St Peter-the-great church. Grooms Parent Henry Marsh, bride’s father John Parker. No other info is listed on this record.
John Parker was born in Chichester so all clues point to Chichester based families.
Joseph’s Census records show birth place Chichester in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census maybe incorrectly?

I have found one record for a Henry Marsh christened 10 June 1808 at St Peter-the-Great, Chichester, (same church as Joseph’s marriage record). His parents were William and Maria. This would make Henry 45 years old when Joseph was born so he may have been married before?

However, another record that I thought maybe them was a Joseph Gardener Marsh christened 04 Nov 1853 at St Andrews Church in Deal, Kent. Fathers name Henry William and Mothers name Lucy Jane. Lucy is a popular name in my family and was Joseph’s first named female child.
Note: My records show children of Joseph are- Lucy 1883, Henry 1885, Edward 1887, Emily 1889, Annie 1891, Joseph 1894 and Albert 1900
Eddie ???

Offline janan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,878
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 07 May 13 10:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Eddie

Welcome to Rootschat :D

I can go to the West Sussex Records Office and have a look at the marriage for you - the entry will have all details that are recorded on the marriage certificate. I should be able to go on Friday. Do you want any other St Peter the Great entries checke dwhile I'm there?

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Roy G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,176
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 07 May 13 12:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Eddie
I think the main problem you will come up against is the lack of a birth registration for Joseph anywhere in Sussex or any appearance on a Sussex census as Joseph Marsh prior to 1891.  Those facts tend to undermine permanency of his residency in Chichester as Joseph Marsh.  Hence I suggested you gave some serious consideration to the fact that he may have been illegitimate and spent his initial years being brought up by someone else, seeing them as his parents and living under their surname.   Furthermore, if his middle name was Gardner, why say it was Henry when his first child Henry was baptised in Chichester in 1885?
Roy G

Online avm228

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,804
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 07 May 13 12:16 BST (UK) »

However, another record that I thought maybe them was a Joseph Gardener Marsh christened 04 Nov 1853 at St Andrews Church in Deal, Kent. Fathers name Henry William and Mothers name Lucy Jane. Lucy is a popular name in my family and was Joseph’s first named female child.


The trouble with Joseph Gard(e)ner Marsh is that, as Joseph Marsh, he appears to be still single and with his mother Lucy in Deal in 1891, at which time "your" Joseph is of course with his wife Emma.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)