Author Topic: Looking for henry marsh in chichester  (Read 6559 times)

Offline janan

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #27 on: Friday 10 May 13 16:52 BST (UK) »
My feeling is that Joseph could well be an illegitimate son of John Henry Pakenham Marsh. I've followed him on censuses and he moves around, living with his widowed mother an annuitant, although he does marry a Matilda, he isn't listed as having an occupation -so the solicitor bit could come from the grandfather. Now this could be totally off the wall and will need closer inspection but in 1851 16 year old Henry Marsh is living with his widowed mother and grandmother in Toxteth in the household is an unmarried lady's maid Susannah White 34 born Chichester. In 1853 there is a Henry White birth registered in Chichester. Susannah is still with the family in 1861 (now in Westbury on Trym) but is now a waitress. Her parents Richard and Charlotte are in Orchard St Chichester 51/61 and widowed Richard is still there in 1871. In 1861 they have a grandson Henry J White with them although he is said to be 3. Henry however is not with Richard in 1871. I cannot see any obvious death for a Henry White born c 1858  between 1861 and 71. I can't see a Henry White born Chichester 1853 in 1861 nor death for him.

I'm still looking for Henry White in 71/81

So fantasy or possibility ;D

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

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Offline avm228

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #28 on: Friday 10 May 13 17:01 BST (UK) »
I confess I am secretly hoping John Henry Pakenham Marsh is the mystery father, as there is some juicy stuff on him in the newspapers of the time!

An 1863 bankruptcy report (Hampshire Telegraph, 19 Dec 1863) shows that he used an alias of Charles Herbert Morley and ran a theatre business in (successively) Ipswich, London, Twickenham and Southsea. The business failed and he was confined to Winchester Gaol as a debtor on 15 September 1863 and adjudicated bankrupt.

Later (1883) he turns up before the courts again on fraud and forgery charges.

Anyway: as Roy says, we musn't get carried away ;)
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Offline janan

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #29 on: Friday 10 May 13 17:20 BST (UK) »
I did wonder where all the money went - he left 5 when he died in 1895!

Anyway: as Roy says, we musn't get carried away ;)

But it's fun :D
Anyway lateral thinking sometimes leads in the right direction. For my own interest I will check for a Henry White baptism  (hoping of course that he will be the illegitmate son of Susannah). And will keep burrowing.

For Eddie your marriage details are on page 2 (before we got excited!)
Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline avm228

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #30 on: Friday 10 May 13 17:25 BST (UK) »
I too had had a (half-hearted) look for what became of Susannah White & found her still with the Marsh family in 1861 & thought little more of it. Interesting that her parents lived in Orchard Street and acquired a mystery grandson.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Roy G

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #31 on: Friday 10 May 13 17:52 BST (UK) »
I'm going to poor cold water on the following as a possible.
....  In 1861 they have a grandson Henry J White with them although he is said to be 3.
This Henry JOHN White was born Chichester 1858 (FreeBMD)
Baptism Date Chichester 18-April 1858, Mother Julia WHITE of the Poor House. Baseborn (SFHG)
Sorry but age 3 is correct and it's not a badly transcribed 8

More cold water on In 1853 there is a Henry White birth registered in Chichester. FreeBMD
He's explained by SFHG baptisms too.
    Baptism Date 13-Mar 1853, father George WHITE Mother Emily   
   Coach Maker of Little London   

Roy 'Killjoy' G

Offline avm228

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #32 on: Friday 10 May 13 17:59 BST (UK) »
Oh Roy, how could you!

But you're right, and Richard & Charlotte White did have a daughter Julia...
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline janan

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #33 on: Friday 10 May 13 18:05 BST (UK) »
Dang >:( ;D

There is however still a Henry White born Chichester district 1853 who I can't find (but I see you've dealt with him too Roy!)

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Roy G

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 11 May 13 11:14 BST (UK) »
Sir Walter Scott once wrote:  "Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" and I believe that sumarises this entire search for the immediate ancestors of Joseph Henry Marsh, said to have been fathered by the solicitor John Henry Marsh in Chichester in 1853.

Joesph Henry Marsh, who certainly must have been a relative innocent party in this entire matter, inherited such an unusal and shall we say 'colourful' family background, in an effort to return to some sort of normality, he could only compound what was already a highly complex situation.  Despite declarions made to the contrary by him and those that cared for him in his infancy, it was highly unlikely his father was a local solicitor called John Henry Marsh, Marsh did not seem to be the surname that he was given at birth, and it is a matter of conjecture whether Chichester was where he was born and brought up.  We only hope the year of birth he gave is roughly correct otherwise even our own speculations about his family origins can be thrown out with the bathwater.

So where to now?  Do we look at the rogueish activities of John Henry Pakenham Marsh in more detail in the hope a link emerges from the archives, or will this be one of those unfotunate family lines that just stops in mid air, and never progresses further back into the past?
Roy G

Offline avm228

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Re: Looking for henry marsh in chichester
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 11 May 13 13:13 BST (UK) »
As to next steps - I don't think the witnesses from the marriage certificate have been traced (at least not by me).

Arthur Parker is likely to be related to the bride - but who was Martha Barnes?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)