Author Topic: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine  (Read 16178 times)

Offline Belfast Gail

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Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« on: Thursday 16 May 13 12:10 BST (UK) »
Adelaide Finlay Elder was my great grandmother.  She was born circa 1850 and died 12 May 1913.
She married James Hay 20 Sept 1886 in Portstewart Presbyterian Church, Ballyrashane, and they produced 4 children, 3 of whom survived.  Their son, Edward James Hay, was my maternal grandfather.
The parish record shows Adelaide's father to be Thomas Elder, a farmer.
Would anyone be able to share any information on Thomas Elder - sadly that's as much info as I have.
Thank you in advance.
Gail
Moorhead - Carnew, Lisnaward & Garvaghy
Barron - Lisnaward
Hay - Coleraine
Elder - Ballymoney, Coleraine, Portstewart
Kennedy - Coleraine & Knock, Belfast
Stevenson - Surrey
Mack & Mussen - Lisburn

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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 May 13 12:49 BST (UK) »
Me again  :)

According to 1911 census there were 4 children but only 2 alive in 1911. The ones I have are:
Mary Adelaide (Jan/Mar.1888 Coleraine-Oct./Dec.1893 Coleraine)
Edward James (Oct./Dec.1888 Coleraine)
Hugh Bellas (Oct./Dec.1889 Coleraine-Oct./Dec.1895 Coleraine)
Margaret Adelaide (July/Sept.1894 Coleraine)

The name of the 3rd child makes sense-
"Hugh Bellas [Liswatty] never married, and an unmarried sister Jane lived with him. Hugh Bellas brought up two neices, Margaret who married O'Neill, and Adelaide who married Hay. Adelaide's dowry from her uncle included a piece of ground in Coleraine on which houses were afterwards built and called Adealide Avenue after her."
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 May 13 13:26 BST (UK) »
"The Will (with one Codicil) of Hugh Bellis late of The Crescent Portstewart County Londonderry Gentleman who died 20 December 1886 at same place was proved at Londonderry by Joseph Cuthbert and Robert Alexander Taylor both of Coleraine Merchants and Henry O'Neill of Portstewart Farmer all in said County the Executors." Effects 3,698 14s. 2d.
Will (written 1881) mentions lots of relatives, including- "nephew Matthew Elder,"niece Margaret Elder now Mrs. O'Neill," "niece Adelaide Finlay Elder."
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Offline Belfast Gail

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 May 13 14:20 BST (UK) »
Aghadowey, I salute you!
If I wasn't already, I am seriously in your debt.

This is fantastic information.  I am working my way through Huh Bellis (Bellas)'s will and trying to  make sense of all those nephews & nieces.  As is often the case, new information raises more questions than it answers, ie why were Jane & Adelaide raised by a maiden aunt and a benevolent uncle - where were their parents?  Can we assume they were sisters?

That's my new project!  The family believes Adelaide Finlay Elder to be descended from James 'Gunner' Elder of Finvoy.  There was a painted miniature of him donated to the Presbyterian Church from the O'Neill home on Prospect Road in Portstewart, and I have what is thought to be his shoe buckle since made into a broach.  It would be great to figure out how Gunner & Adelaide were related! 

And you have shed some light on how the Hay & O'Neill families were connected - until now, that was a mystery.

You have really helped me - I am in awe of your expertise.
Thank you so, so much.
Gail
Moorhead - Carnew, Lisnaward & Garvaghy
Barron - Lisnaward
Hay - Coleraine
Elder - Ballymoney, Coleraine, Portstewart
Kennedy - Coleraine & Knock, Belfast
Stevenson - Surrey
Mack & Mussen - Lisburn

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 May 13 17:45 BST (UK) »
The Bellas and Williamson families are sort of connected to me so I do have some information on them but you do need to be careful with the relationships mentioned- Mrs. Sarah Jane Williamson and her sister Elizabeth Caskie are listed as nieces to Hugh Bellas (correct) but the other Williamsons listed as 'niece' and 'nephew' are Sarah Jane's children (thus, Hugh Bellas is their great-uncle).

I did see written somewhere that Adelaide Finlay Elder was the daughter of Rev. Matthew Elder of Kilraghts but think that can't be correct. As far as I know, Adelaide and Margaret were sisters whose parents died when they were young and Uncle Hugh and Aunt Jane took care of them.
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Offline Belfast Gail

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 18 May 13 15:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Aghadowey
I have a copy of the parish record of the marriage between James & Adelaide, dated Sept 1886.  Adelaide's father is named as Thomas Elder, farmer.  The 2 witnesses are Francis Hay & Margaret O'Neill.  I know now (after your enormous help) Margaret O'Neill's relationship to Adelaide.
Have you any idea if their parents died of early, natural causes or was there an awful accident?
As always, I am fascinated & indebted.  :D
Gail
Moorhead - Carnew, Lisnaward & Garvaghy
Barron - Lisnaward
Hay - Coleraine
Elder - Ballymoney, Coleraine, Portstewart
Kennedy - Coleraine & Knock, Belfast
Stevenson - Surrey
Mack & Mussen - Lisburn

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 May 13 21:42 BST (UK) »
Just started searching for your Thomas Elder and found this marriage (only a possibility for now)-
7 Aug.1846 First Presbyterian Church Kilraghts- Thomas G. Elder & Margaret White (page 255 in civil register)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGFG-28Q

Might connect to this John Elder (born c1822), son of Thomas Elder & Jane Graeme-
http://www.ballymoneyancestry.com/VolForumRss.aspx?topic_id=135&print=1


Which leads onto this interesting obituary... "Elder.-On the 7th inst, at Melbourne, Thomas Graham Elder, youngest son of the late Rev. Mathew Elder, Kilraughts, and formerly of Pinehill House, Co. Antrim, Ireland. Home papers please copy."
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5822345

Still speculative but will post further results...
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 May 13 21:57 BST (UK) »
Rev. Matthew Elder (Kilraughts) born 1767 Garvagh, Co. Derry. Brother Henry Elder(Faughanvale) and half-brother James Elder (Finvoy- known as 'Gun of the Gospel'). Another brother was Robert (died 1842 age 69).

Rev. James Elder (Finvoy) born 25 Dec.1757 Bellury near Garvagh and died 4 Nov.1843. Wife Jane died 21 Feb.1829 age 70. Three children- James, Jane & Maria who died in infancy.

Coleraine Chronicle, 15 Aug.1846: On the 7th inst., in the Presbyterian Church of Kilraughts, by the Rev. John Alexander, of Ballyrashane, Thomas G. Elder, Esq., of Pine Hill, in the parish of Kilraughts, to Margaret, youngest daughter of the late George White, Esq., of Cave Hill, in the parish of Carnmoney.

Coleraine Chronicle, 2 Oct.1852: At Pinehill, on the 24th ult., the wife of Mr. Thomas Elder, of Pinehill, of a son.
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Adelaide Finlay Elder (c1850-1913) Coleraine
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 May 13 23:27 BST (UK) »
Right, think I may have gotten the Elder connection finally sorted out - with help from family  :) So, before you start reading you might want to grab a cup of tea...

Rev. Matthew Elder (1767 Bellury?-23 July 1827) married 1804 Mary Ann Graham from Dunboe (her death date of 13 May 1845 not confirmed). They lived at Pinehill and I've some children listed below but there could have been others.
1) Jane Elder (died 9 May 1869 The Crescent, Portstewart), eldest daughter, m.(30 June 1842) Hugh Bellas of Liswatty- this would be the couple that raised Margaret & Adelaide.
2) Isabella Elder, 2nd daughter, m.(26 Mar.1845) Patrick McVicker (d.1880) of Dunbought, Dunaghy, Antrim. Had one daughter Jane Maria McVicker who married John Torrens Calwell (d.1923?) & had 2 daughters.
3) Thomas Graham Elder, Pinehill, m.(7 Aug.1846) Margaret White. See below
4) Matthew Elder (c1822-30 May 1839)- died of consumption supposed to be contracted by his studies at Belfast Academical Institution.

Belfast Newsletter, 22 Nov.1852 has an Advertisement to Creditors, Legatees, and Encumbrancers... In the matter of Patrick M'Vickar & Isabella M'Vickar petitioners; Thomas Graham Elder respondent... Apparently a dispute about settlement of Mary Ann Elder's property (widow of Rev. Matthew Elder).
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