Help with Scottish Records!

[MonicaL]

Carole, I am going to add some to the additonal background notes you have given me as they may be relevant in this general search and good for everyone to see too:

...I remember my father telling my his grandfather came up from the borders area around the turn of the century to look for work.  I think he named Hawick as the place they came from, but since half the population of the borders area are called Scott, there’s a lot there to sift through, if you include all the small villages and places like Selkirk etc.  It also doesn’t help that the family used very few forenames – mostly John and James.  They appear to alternate with each generation (my dad was James).  Also, most of them had Hogg as a middle name...

The reference to Hogg as a middle name shows clearly when Carole's grandfather, John Hogg Scott married in 1929 in Bellshill. From that cert, with the family still living on Glebe Street:

[MonicaL]

From what we have so far, this looks the most likely entry for 1901, with a change of (temporary) occupation for James?:

James Scott 29, coal miner, b. Hawick, roxburghshire
Christina Scott 24 b. Bellshill, Lanarkshire
Agnes Scott 6
Isabella Scott 4
Christina Scott 2
Jane Scott 5 months
James Pettigrew 22 boarder, coal miner b. Bellshill

Address: 77b Glencairn St., b. Motherwell

Is this the right entry Carole? Have you managed to find the family in 1911, after your grandfather John was born in 1908. Going by his 1908 birth which you have, the family were still in Motherwell so likely the above entry from 1901 is correct. From your grandfather's 1908 birth:

[MonicaL]

Carole, I think the main reason you are likely not finding a marriage for James' parents, John Ray/hay? Scott and Isabella Scott is they may very likely not have been married when James was born...

There is this entry showing on LDS (the original will be available on Scotlands People/SP to view) for a James born in Wilton, Rox, in 1869 to an Isabella Scott https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQH-S4H

I think this is them in 1871:

John Turville 71 Wool Frame Work Knitter b. England
Wallace Turville 55 (female) showing as wife b. England
Isabella Scott 20 niece, Wool Factory Worker, b. Hawick, Roxburghshire
James Scott 1 nephew b. Wilton

Address: Victoria Road, Wilton. Roxburgshire

In 1881, there is this entry:

Thomas Oliver 34, Wool Frame Work Knitter b. Hawick
Isabella Cullins 32 General Domestic Servt, b. General Domestic Servt
Margaret Cullins 10 boarder, b. Wilton, Roxburgh Sh
Joan Johnstone 7 boarder b. Hawick, Roxburgh Sh
James Scott 11 boarder b. Wilton

Address: 5 Tannage Close, Hawick

I thought Isabella above might be James' mother with more children under a different surname, but don't think so as the birth of Margaret seems to show here under Cullens as above really https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ8B-CN5

[loobylooayr]

Hiya,
There is a James Scott born in Selkirk on 13/3/1873 to a John Scott but the mother's name is Robina Cochrane Hogg ?? John Scott's occupation is a tailor 
Robina Cochrane Hogg/Scott dies sometime in 1879.
Only mentioned this because of the name Hogg and because I couldn't find a match on Scotlands People for a marriage between a John Scott and an Isabella Scott.
What does it same John Scott snrs middle name is? I couldn't make it out....is it Hogg too?
Looby

[MonicaL]

No, Looby, not Hogg. Looks like Hay or Ray to me. If Ray, could also be Rae possibly with spelling variations.

On James' marriage cert, father shows as a Baker journeyman like him. Both parents deceased from what we had on that clip by 1894.

If illegitimate, then the way the HOGG surname that is being used by James with his children would make me think that:

1. His father was called John Hogg or,
2. His mother Isabella Scott also was illegitimate and went by the surname of Hogg or Scott.

Carole, have you managed to find James' death cert.? Did this have any different info regarding his parents?

Monica

[MonicaL]

Got James' DC now. He died in Bellhill in 1951, the year before wife Christina. He showed as aged 82 then, so points more to a likely c.1869 birth year.

Same details for his parents as on marriage entry:

[MonicaL]

A little more that I have found. Putting it here to see what you guys all think.

We haven't found a marriage between a John Hay Scott and an Isabella Scott, both showing as deceased by 1894.

From the 1901 census, we have James showing as born in Hawick c. 1872.

We have a birth in Wilton for a James Scott to an Isabella Scott in 1869. The 1871 census entry had Isabella and young James showing as living with a John and Wallace Turville in Victoria Road, Wilton.

Have found young Isabella Scott's death in 1875, age showing as 24 and 9 months. Parents as below. Mother's maiden surname of Cullen. A cousin, James Cullens, reported the death. I think the 1881 census entry with a young James Scott certainly links to this family....whether it is the right family...hard to say.

What bothers me most is the way the surname HOGG was used later. There is always a reason for the use of surnames by people 

From her death cert, her parents show as below, which connects to this 1851 census entry I think - www.maxwellancestry.com/census/51transcript.aspx?houseid=78917020 :

[MonicaL]

James in 1891, by now in Lanarkshire. Transcribed as Janes:

Thomas Cruickshanks 16 (?76) head blacksmith, b. Aberdeen
Ann Duff 69 b. Aberdeen
Robert Turnbull 18 boarder apprentice baker b. Hawick
Janes Scott 19 boarder apprentice baker b. Hawick

Address: 8 Eglinton Lane, Glasgow Govan

Monica

[loobylooayr]

Hi Monica,
Yes I'd looked at that family too on the 1851 and 1861 Census in Hawick.
So this poor Isabella Scott died when her son was approx. 5 years old. And it looks by 1881 Census entry you transcribed that he was with relatives Cullins .
Wonder if father was just a John Hay? There are Hay's in Hawick at this time.
Has the birth certificate of James Scott been found yet?
Looby