Author Topic: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport  (Read 2750 times)

Offline rob g

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 25 June 13 09:00 BST (UK) »
Hi. Again. Just to let you know  cooper is an old travelling name. Not just an occupation.try looking up the romany sites they give lots of names you may find helpful. And by fireing a few arrows in the dark.it may help.. rob...g
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .

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Offline Sandgrounder1

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 25 June 13 14:07 BST (UK) »
Just a thought.  The adoptive mother came from Surrey but was she living in Surrey or somewhere in Lancashire at the time of the adoption?  If it was only an informal adoption there may have been a family connection to the real parents, or at least some kind of link.  If she was living in Surrey how did she find out about the child in St. Helens?  More likely she was living in Lancashire but it is still a long way to go back to Surrey to baptise a child.
CONWAY, Westport, Mayo; TEALE, Salford, Manchester; GILCHRIST, Edinburgh; GRIFFITHS, East Stonehouse, Devon / Cardiff; VENNEN (and variations) Cornwall; TOY, Cornwall; ENGLAND, Cromer/Northrepps, Norfolk; LOFTUS, Cissie and Marie, Music Hall Artistes, Glasgow; PORTSWORTHY, Cornwall; SARCHFIELD, Manchester/Southport

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Offline denbury

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 27 June 13 08:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob

Thanks for the tip. I am stuck without a name - the organization connected to the case appears not to have kept my grandmother's adoption file. If not for newspapers, I would even have a date.

Offline denbury

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #12 on: Friday 28 June 13 08:28 BST (UK) »
Adoptive mother lived in London most of her life. Her husband likewise, born in Kent. The story is that they adopted my grandmother when reading about her plight in the newspapers. Said newspaper article was produced, so I know that to be true. And I have since found copies of it myself in the newspaper archive. Though it was only mentioned in brief in London newspapers, so I do wonder what compelled them to adopt this particular child. They already had two of their own.  I have not found a Lancs. connection with either parents. Until I proved the newspaper story, I also wondered if they were relations and something had been covered up.

I have yet to locate two sisters of the adoptive mother after 1901, no idea where they were when all this went down. They had a common surname so have not been able to locate marriages.

The adoptive couple ran a newsagents so I assume they saw the story in detail in a Lancs. newspaper, but would they have stocked Lancs. newspapers and why take on a such a sensational case when they were already working from sun up to sun down?

I just don't know....

Offline Sandgrounder1

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 29 June 13 11:01 BST (UK) »
Why don't you try posting a "precis" of all the information you have (or you are willing to share) on here.  The Rootschat members are excellent at solving puzzles.  I have had some of my own puzzles solved by other members.  If you could find for instance the family of the adoptive couple that might help.
CONWAY, Westport, Mayo; TEALE, Salford, Manchester; GILCHRIST, Edinburgh; GRIFFITHS, East Stonehouse, Devon / Cardiff; VENNEN (and variations) Cornwall; TOY, Cornwall; ENGLAND, Cromer/Northrepps, Norfolk; LOFTUS, Cissie and Marie, Music Hall Artistes, Glasgow; PORTSWORTHY, Cornwall; SARCHFIELD, Manchester/Southport

Offline denbury

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 29 June 13 12:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob

To cut a long story shorter....

Timeline

16 July 1905 - Born, birth name and place of birth unknown
13 Oct 1906 - Wheatsheaf pub, Rainford, Lancs., woman travelling with two men (reported to be coopers by trade) and two children, sold one of the children for 4s to Tom Thompson, miner of Rainford. Other child believed to be male. My grandmother was told she had a brother.
18 Dec 1906 - First newspaper reports appeared detailing events of 13 Oct, asking to find a new home for the child.Story was initially detailed at the Dec 1906 AGM of the St Helens branch of the NSPCC. Newspapers then ran the story and interviewed Tom Thompson's mother who was living with her son.
9 March 1907 - Tom Thompson appears in Ormskirk Magistrates Court for being drunk in charge of a child. 'Alice' is removed from the Thompsons by the NSPCC.
5 May 1907 (recent find) - 'Alice' baptised in Shamley Green Surrey by adoptive parents as Eva Alice Taylor. Parish register recorded her DOB as *6* July 1905.
1911 Census - With adoptive parents in Cricklewood London, aged 6, birthplace - Cricklewood and counted as a child to the marriage.
1930 - Eva Alice married, gave age as 2 years younger and adoptive father's name as father.

Research - see article that I had published Family Tree Magazine August 2010, also details events -

http://s16.postimg.org/o9c31pgt1/page1.jpg

http://s23.postimg.org/ii0kygbu3/page2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/5kelple69/page3.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/m3swerzvd/page4.jpg


Have also tried Prescot Guardian Minutes.

Newspapers

Have since found 33 instances of the newspaper story reported in the UK, US, Wales and Australia.

Tom Thompson

Died 1933 in Billinge Hospital Lancs. He had one daughter, Ellen, born 1908. Married Tom Bradshaw 1928 in Orrell, Lancs. Had 3 children - Ellen 1929, Doreen 1933, Clifford 1936.
 


Offline Sandgrounder1

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Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 13 December 17 23:34 GMT (UK) »
I came across this post again today.  Did you ever make any progress with it?  I would be interested to know.
CONWAY, Westport, Mayo; TEALE, Salford, Manchester; GILCHRIST, Edinburgh; GRIFFITHS, East Stonehouse, Devon / Cardiff; VENNEN (and variations) Cornwall; TOY, Cornwall; ENGLAND, Cromer/Northrepps, Norfolk; LOFTUS, Cissie and Marie, Music Hall Artistes, Glasgow; PORTSWORTHY, Cornwall; SARCHFIELD, Manchester/Southport