Death of Seaman at Sea

[Chris_t]

Have you found the ship's crew list? There could be a note on that perhaps? 

Hi Linda, from what I can tell the ship primarily carried merchandise but did carry 23 passengers and 17 crew.  Although the passengers are all identified by name the crew are not identified with the exception of the captain. No mention of the incident is made on the arrival documents that I have been able to view. Regards, Christine

[loobylooayr]

Hi Christine,
What a shame there is no crew list or mention of  Duncan's fate on arrival documents.
I've had a look on the British Newspaper Archives website but have had no success finding any mention of Duncan Bell's death.News of his demise would have taken months to reach Scotland and it may never have been reported to the local press. That's not to say there is no report  , but I certainly couldn't find one. It's a bit like the cliche - needle in a haystack.
Let's hope Pauline's info establishes who poor Duncan was and if he was you ggg-uncle.
Good luck,
Linda

[Chris_t]

Hi Christine,
What a shame there is no crew list or mention of  Duncan's fate on arrival documents.
I've had a look on the British Newspaper Archives website but have had no success finding any mention of Duncan Bell's death.News of his demise would have taken months to reach Scotland and it may never have been reported to the local press. That's not to say there is no report  , but I certainly couldn't find one. It's a bit like the cliche - needle in a haystack.
Let's hope Pauline's info establishes who poor Duncan was and if he was you ggg-uncle.
Good luck,
Linda

I now have a copy of his ticket and it gives his date of birth so it does confirm that it is my Great, Great, Great Uncle.  Duncan first went to sea in 1849 at the age of 14 as an "abh". Not sure what this means but perhaps the 'h' stands for hand.

I have asked this question before in another forum about a person who died as a passenger during a sea voyage home from Australia and his family did not seem to know what happened to him but I am hoping in this instance there was someone who was able to advise Duncan's family about his fate. Regards, Christine

[loobylooayr]

Great that you've discovered that Duncan is your ancestor!
Could ab stand for able bodied?    I'm not really sure about nautical terms.
As you say, hope his family were informed. His mother had already lost a husband (wonder if he was a seaman too?) - poor woman.
Regards, Linda 

[Chris_t]

(wonder if he was a seaman too?)

Yes I believe that Duncan's father (also named Duncan) was a mariner but I don't have a lot of information about him. Given Duncan's middle name it is likely that his father's parents were Duncan Bell and Catherine Leitch. Presumably he died sometime between 1839 and 1851 as he doesn't appear on either census although he could have been at sea in 1841. Regards, Christine

[Forfarian]

Could ab stand for able bodied?    I'm not really sure about nautical terms.

The abbreviation AB is a standard abbreviation of 'Able-bodied seaman' and is appended to the names of ordinary sailors - a bit like 'private' in the Army.

[Chris_t]

The abbreviation AB is a standard abbreviation of 'Able-bodied seaman' and is appended to the names of ordinary sailors - a bit like 'private' in the Army.

Possibly he started of as a deck hand so ABH probably therefore stands for able bodied hand. I googled boatswain and found that they were a senior deck hand.

Thank you to everyone who helped.

[Chris_t]

Hi Christine,

I looked at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for records of merchant seaman. This directed me to the www.findmypast.co.uk - keying in Duncan Bell's name and birth location does give results but to view the records you need to have a subscription to the site (which unfortunately I don't  )
But perhaps some kind Rootschatter who does subscribe to this site might look him up for you if you don't want to subscribe yourself.

I think I found this Duncan on the 1841 Census living at King Street, Port Glasgow -

Janet Jackson   age 65   born outside census county
Agnes Bell        age 25  born Renfrewshire
Duncan Bell      age  6            "
Samuel Bell       age 4             "
Janet Bell          age 1             "

By 1851 the family are still at King Street minus Duncan

Agnes Bell  age 38  Widow   born Renfrewshire, Greenock
Samuel Bell age 14              born   "               , Port Glasgow
Jessie Bell    age 10             born   "               , Port Glasgow

Of course, the Duncan Bell belonging to this family could already be dead, be living and working somewhere else, or could be at sea 

There is a birth on Familysearch https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTV9-5BL   which appears to be the above Duncan, assuming that Agnes Bell's maiden name was Jackson and she was living with her mother in 1841.

Hope this helps and that you can get access to his seaman's ticket/record which would probably verify dates and names.

Good luck with you research,
Linda 

Now that I have confirmed that the Duncan Bell who died by falling overboard en-route to Sydney, Australia is my 3 x Great Uncle I now have another question about his brother Samuel. I have a page which I believe that I downloaded from FindMyPast for Duncan which appears to be an index of seaman's tickets.  What is interesting is that when I look further down the page I find an entry which appears to belong to his brother Samuel.  The only thing is that when I search for Samuel on FindMyPast he doesn't come up in the index.  I made a note of the seaman's ticket and it is 546856. Can any one help me find the original entry so that I can confirm that it is him and find out what happened to him. Samuel was born at Port Glasgow and the date of birth that I have for him is 1 April 1837.

Thank you for any help

[seaweed]

Hi Christine,
What a shame there is no crew list

A little late in the day but for reference.
The Bark ELORA official number 2831 was built in Dumbarton in 1831, 333 grt. In 1853 she was registered in Port Glasgow.
If it has survived it should be here. Crew agreements for Port Glasgow vessels 1853 are lodged in the National Archive piece BT98/3528
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4067895
Given the length of a voyage to and from Australia, the Crew Agreement would have been given up to the port authority in 1854. May I suggest you also look at this 1854 crew agreements in BT98/3939.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4068306
I note that vessels from Preston and Portsmouth are also included in the pieces. Your best bet is to visit Kew yourself to research these documents.

The Crew agreements may or may not give you more information than you already have but should give the approximate Latitude and Longitude position of his demise.

Regarding Samuel Bell I found him in the Index BT114/2 but that's all I can find on FindMyPast. Seems his records have been lost or destroyed.
The only thing is to look at the original Port Glasgow Crew agreements as outlined above to see if you can find him.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?name=Search&_aq=port+glasgow&_ep=&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=bt98&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=&_ed=&_hb=&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_st=adv&_rv=

 Problem is he may have served on vessels from other ports.