Isaac Smith, Sarah Temple, John and Anne Temple 1780's?

[NDRFT]

No Temple marriage that fits in Black Bourton PR's

[NDRFT]

Nothing relevant in Broadwell PR's

[Orpheus]

I would be very grateful if anyone would be able to try and find Eliza Charidge's parents if possible please. The surname could be a mistype and infact it could be CLARIDGE. But their are names called Charidge.

Eliza the daughter of William and Eleanor CLARIDGE was baptised at Black Bourton on 4 Sep 1825.  Her mother was Eleanor TEMPLE born c1791 Filkins.  There is a marriage in the OFHS marriage index for William and Eleanor but I haven't noted where and when it took place.  I seem to recall that William's surname was spelled incorrectly and this could be why it has not already been found.

FamilySearch has the following baptisms for William and Eleanor:

4 Nov 1810 Sarah d William & Eleanor CLARRAGE at Black Bourton
5 Apr 1812 Ann d William & Eleanor CLARRAGE at Black Bourton
2 Mar 1815 John s William & Eleanor CLARRIDGE at Black Bourton
23 Nov 1817 William s William & Eleanor CLARIGE at Black Bourton.  Died 4 Dec 1817
21 Mar 1819 Eleanour d William & Eleanour CLARRIDGE at Black Bourton
4 Sep 1825 Eliza d William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Black Bourton
10 Jan 1830 John s William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Broughton Poggs.  Died 22 Jan 1832
1 Jul 1832 Jane d William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Broughton Poggs
31 Aug 1834 Sarah d William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Broughton Poggs
2 Sep 1838 Ann d William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Broughton Poggs
27 Jun 1841 Elizabeth d William & Eleanor CLARIDGE at Broughton Poggs

Also at Broughton Poggs:

3 Jan 1848 George s Eleanor CLARIDGE

[andrewp91]

Hmm, im not too sure why they are not showing in any of them NDRFT but thanks for looking!

Hi Orpheus, Thank you for looking into that for me, I appreciate the help!! So Eleanor was previously a "TEMPLE" which would have made it Sarah sister if it said that Eliza was the NEICE of her. I remember that NDFT actually named a person called Eleanor... with father William and mother Ann..

Also looking at Broadwell (Bradwell) St Peter & St George Church, PR's I see the following baptisms.
Sarah bapt 13 May 1787 do of John and Ann
Eleanor bapt 27 Oct 1791 d o William and Ann of Filkins
George bapt 4 May 1794 s o John & Mary of Filkins
John bapt 11 Oct 1789 s o John & Jane of Filkins
Marianna bapt 15 May 1796 d o John and Anna of Filkins
No TEMPLE burials in there though

So if Eleanor was the daughter of William and Sarah was the daughter of John, it would indicate that Ann (the mother of Sarah and Eleanor) didn't get married as she seems to be having different partners... im not too sure on this though. What would be the best way to try and get to the bottom if this, would it still have birth places on death certificates in 1849... and fathers names on marriage records in 1812 and maybe birth records show parents names.. or parish records?

Its good that you are able to give me the children's names of William and Eleanor! but which ones would be the ones that relate to me do you know please as I don't think all of them would be the same William and Eleanor that relate to me as they are having children over 30 year period (plus the years that they are until they had the first child). 

Regards
Andrew

[Orpheus]

Its good that you are able to give me the children's names of William and Eleanor! but which ones would be the ones that relate to me do you know please as I don't think all of them would be the same William and Eleanor that relate to me as they are having children over 30 year period (plus the years that they are until they had the first child). 

It is quite feasible that all the children belong to the same couple.  If Eleanor was born about 1791 she had her first child, in 1810, at the age of 19.  In 1841, when the last child is baptised, she would be about 50.  Not impossible - especially if you consider that these are baptisms, not births, and the child need not have been a baby at the time.

[andrewp91]

True, but to have that many children, ouch! haha. I have had a quick look today and found that in the 1841 census it states that Isaac Smith was a slater, living with Sarah Smith (wife) and Elizabeth TEMPLE (aged 20). Im unsure who this Elizabeth Temple is but my only opinion is that it is someone who is related to Sarah Smith previously Temple.

I am sure that it is the same couple as it is too coincidental that their is a Temple living with them and Isaac is a builder (which is given in the bap records of his children) and he was living at Walton Close, Oxford.

I looked in the Orbit's and found an article for Isaac Smith who gave the same death date and the same name of place where he lived, but instead of Close it was Walton Place.

It states the following; August 28, After a Long and server illness, borne with truly Christian  fortitude, Mr Isaac Smith, of Walton Place, aged 61, Deservedly Respected by all who knew him.

So I believe that the 1841 census that states that they have Isaac Smith, Sarah Smith and Elizabeth Temple are all the same and correct family! The only thing that I don't seem to understand is that in the Colum it askes if they are born in the same county, and it has a N next to all their names which I can only assume that they are stating that they are NOT born in the same county which is Oxfordshire. It also has a tick in the Colum which askes if they are born in Scotland, Ireland or foreign parts which I can only assume that they are stating that they are born in the foreign parts.

But in the 1851, 1861, and 1871 census where Sarah is living as a widow it states that she was born in Filkins which is in the Oxfordshire area? I would like to find either parents of Sarah Temple or Isaac Smith.

Regards
Andrew

[Orpheus]

True, but to have that many children, ouch! haha. I have had a quick look today and found that in the 1841 census it states that Isaac Smith was a slater, living with Sarah Smith (wife) and Elizabeth TEMPLE (aged 20). Im unsure who this Elizabeth Temple is but my only opinion is that it is someone who is related to Sarah Smith previously Temple.

I think that the above Elizabeth TEMPLE was the daughter of George and Martha TEMPLE baptised at Alvescot, Oxfordshire on 23 July 1815.  This baptism date does mean that she was actually 25 or 26 in 1841 but, as you probably know, the ages of all persons over fifteen were rounded down to the nearest five years in  this census.  This Elizabeth married Thomas BROOKLAND in Sep Qtr 1844, Oxford Reg. Dist. and is living with him and their several children in St Giles's Street, Oxford in 1851.

George TEMPLE and his wife Martha are living in Alvescot in 1851.  George gives his age as 57, therefore he was born about 1794, and his birthplace as Filkins.  This fits with him being the George TEMPLE baptised to John and Mary at Broadwell on 4 May 1794.  Despite the variety of names of the parents (John & Ann, William & Ann, and John & Mary) I suspect that Sarah, Eleanor and George are brother and sisters.  It wasn't unusual for a vicar to make an error!

[andrewp91]

So all Sarah bapt 13 May 1787 do of John and Ann
Eleanor bapt 27 Oct 1791 d o William and Ann of Filkins
George bapt 4 May 1794 s o John & Mary of Filkins
John bapt 11 Oct 1789 s o John & Jane of
Marianna bapt 15 May 1796 d o John and Anna of Filkins

Really would have been brother and sister, or at least half brother and sister... but we are assuming that the vicar was drunk at the time (only joking about being drunk), but infact made an error on the names of father and mother. As the name John is on 4 of the 5 childrens name im going to assume that the fathers name was indeed John and the name of the mother was actually Anna due to the name repearing in most the the children's names.

As NDFT mentioned above that the only possible marriage record for a John and Ann near to Filkins is Langford of a John Temple and Anna Illott, Do you know I would be able to be sure that these are infact the parents, would their name show on any witnesses on marriage or maybe they held orbituary or national probates which might support the claim to the children? Or maybe they lived into the census where made and actually lived with some of their grandchildren which we know of?

Kindest Regards
Andrew

[Orpheus]

As NDFT mentioned above that the only possible marriage record for a John and Ann near to Filkins is Langford of a John Temple and Anna Illott, Do you know I would be able to be sure that these are infact the parents, would their name show on any witnesses on marriage or maybe they held orbituary or national probates which might support the claim to the children? Or maybe they lived into the census where made and actually lived with some of their grandchildren which we know of?

The chances of the parents of Sarah and her siblings surviving until the census are slim as they were probably born in the 1760s and would be aged around 80.  In any case their children would be married by that time and probably not living with them.

There are no TEMPLE wills proved in either the Oxfordshire Diocesan or Archdeaconry Courts for persons in the Filkins area.  The chances of there being a PCC (Prerogative Court of Canterbury) will at the National Archives is also fairly slim as the family appear to have been agricultural labourers.

As I am going to Oxfordshire Archives tomorrow I will take a look at a few things whilst I am there if I have time.