Maidstone Parish Registers - GRAY

[glenysjr]

If someone has access to the above PR's, probably All Saints Church; I am searching for the birth/baptism of James GRAY probably about 1802 in Maidstone.  He married Ann COOK I believe in 1822 also in Maidstone.  I also believe he had a sister Isabella Ann GRAY who was a witness at his marriage - Isabella is my 3ggmother. 

Any assistance gratefully received.
Glenys

[BettyofKent]

No baptism for a James GRAY  in Maidstone All Saints.

Isabella Ann was baptised 24th Aug 1804 (born 30th June) dau of John & Mary.
John & Mary had 5 other children - John William 1797, Sarah Ann 1799, Dinah Louisa 1800, Mary Elizabeth 1802 & Ann Tyler 1806.

Here's the marriage, Maidstone All Saints.
1822 22nd Dec, by Banns
James GRAY, tp, B
Ann COOK, tp, W
Witnesses: James KNIGHT, Sarah KNIGHT.


Hope that helps 

Betty

[glenysjr]

Thank you Betty.  Well, that undoes one of the old family "facts" - Isabella is definitely not a sister and was not a witness at James' marriage!!  Thanks for your help.  Better concentrate more on John and Mary Tyler GRAY and family.

Glenys

[rm91]

Thank you Betty.  Well, that undoes one of the old family "facts" - Isabella is definitely not a sister and was not a witness at James' marriage!!  Thanks for your help.  Better concentrate more on John and Mary Tyler GRAY and family.

Glenys

Hello, I know this post is very old, but I was searching for the Grays of Maidstone, Kent, and I saw this and just wondered if you had any info on this John and Mary Tyler Gray??

I was looking in to some of my ancestors, a JAMES and Mary Gray who married in East Farleigh, nr Maidstone, and someone else who also had a look mentioned that in the marriage banns the bride's name was given as 'Tyler Gray'.

[glenysjr]

Hello.  How very interesting your post is.  I have not been very successful at all in locating much further information on Mary TYLER and her husband John GRAY.  I do have their children, all born at Maidstone, and their marriage in London in 1796.  That's about it. 

What time frame are we talking about for James and Mary GRAY married at East Farleigh?   Are they connected to the Charles and Jemima GRAY baptised at Maidstone in 1809, parents given as James and Mary GRAY?

Glenys

[rm91]

Hello.  How very interesting your post is.  I have not been very successful at all in locating much further information on Mary TYLER and her husband John GRAY.  I do have their children, all born at Maidstone, and their marriage in London in 1796.  That's about it. 

What time frame are we talking about for James and Mary GRAY married at East Farleigh?   Are they connected to the Charles and Jemima GRAY baptised at Maidstone in 1809, parents given as James and Mary GRAY?

Glenys

Hi Glenys, thanks for the reply. I apologise in advance for what will probably be quite a lengthy reply.

The James and Mary Gray I have are the end point of the Gray line on my tree. My grandmother's mum's maiden name was Gray, hence the connection to me. She was born in Portsmouth, but her father, Charles Walter Gray, was from Maidstone.

Charles (I found a death record for Jemima in 1809) I believe is my great x4 grandfather, and like you say, his parents were given as James and Mary. Charles' son John had the aforementioned Charles Walter (an interesting chap).

But yes, back to my original post re James and Mary. I was talking to a very helpful person on GenesReunited who responded to a post on there and sent me the following:

First name(s) James
Last name Gray
Birth year 1788<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Burial year 1853
Burial date 19 Mar 1853
Age at death 65
Place Maidstone
Dedication All Saints
Residence Woollett Street<<<<<<<<<<<<
County Kent
Country England
Record source Maidstone All Saints burials 1838-1907 (plus 5 1977-89)

The Woollett St address is interesting.
In 1841 we have James and Mary living at Wheeler St. Charles (1809) and his family are also at Wheeler St. In 1851, James and Mary are still at Wheeler St, but by now Charles and family have moved to Woollett St. Did James move in with them (perhaps as a widower) after 1851, and died there in 1853 I wonder?

There is a death record for a Mary Gray sent by the GenesReunited person, for a death in 1852:

First name(s) Mary
Last name Gray
Birth year 1774<<<<<<<<<<<<
Burial year 1852
Burial date 27 Apr 1852
Age at death 78
Place Maidstone
Dedication All Saints
Residence Brewer Street

Could this be James' Mary, who died in 1852 and so he consequently moved in with son Charles before himself dying in 1853 at their house in Woollett St?

Then, I am sent the following:

First name(s) James
Last name Gray
Marriage year 1809
Marriage year as transcribed 1809
Marriage date 18 Jun 1809
Marriage place East Farleigh
Spouse's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's last name Gray
Groom's first name James
Groom's last name Gray
Bride's first name Mary
Bride's last name Gray
County Kent
Record source East Farleigh marriages 1580-1842
Record set Kent Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

Note marriage has bride as Mary Gray.

Banns have her as Mary Tyler Gray:

First name(s) Mary
Last name Tyler Gray
Banns year 1809
Banns date 16 Apr 1809
Place East Farleigh
Spouse's first name(s) James
Spouse's last name Gray
Groom's first name(s) James
Groom's last name Gray
Groom's marital status -
Groom's parish -
Bride's first name(s) Mary
Bride's last name Tyler Gray
Bride's marital status -
Bride's parish -
County Kent
Country England
Record Source East Farleigh banns 1754-1840
Record set Kent Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

This marriage is at East Farleigh in 1809, NOT London in 1796. It's worth noting here that both of James' children, Charles and Thomas, both also married at East Farleigh.

If the above records are correct, it shows Mary a good 14 years older than James Gray.
Banns have her as Mary Tyler Gray.
Could it be this Mary married a John Gray in London in 1796 (aged 22) before going off with James Gray in Maidstone 12 years later?
The census gives Mary's birth place as Hammersmith, Middlesex.

All very interesting indeed.

Russell

[glenysjr]

Hello Russell:  Sincere apologies for the delay, please forgive me.

Your last message was filled with important information and I appreciate it.

In the last few days as I have been able, I have worked on the info and then remembered that I had an old database that may have further details.  This is what I have, along with the information you sent, plus new information I have found, but which you might already have. 

John GREY chr 12 Sep 1773, St. Mary's Portsea, Hampshire to John GREY and Mary.  Buried 6 Apr 1808 Maidstone, Kent.
John Grey
England Births and Christenings
Name    John Grey
Gender    Male
Christening Date    12 Sep 1773
Christening Place    SAINT MARYS,PORTSEA,HAMPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name    John Grey
Citing this Record
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWJH-NVW : accessed 15 October 2015), John Grey, 12 Sep 1773; citing SAINT MARYS,PORTSEA,HAMPSHIRE,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 919,735, 919,736.

John GREY married Mary EVANS 15 Nov 1772 St. Mary's Portsea, Hampshire
John Gray
mentioned in the record of John Gray and Mary Evans
Name    John Gray
Spouse's Name    Mary Evans
Event Date    15 Nov 1772
Event Place    Saint Marys,Portsea,Hampshire,England
Citing this Record
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N24V-MBM : accessed 15 October 2015), John Gray and Mary Evans, 15 Nov 1772; citing Saint Marys,Portsea,Hampshire,England, reference ; FHL microfilm 919,735, 919,736, 919,744.

Other children I have of the marriage of John GREY and Mary are: all at St. Mary's Portsea
Mary chr 19 Mar 1775
Dinah chr 26 Jan 1777  bur 26 Jul 1805 Portsea
Louisa chr 4 Nov 1781  bur 26 May 1801 Portsea
James Rodaway chr 14 Dec 1783
Nathaniel chr 6 Dec 1784
James chr 7 Jun 1788  bur 19 Mar 1853 Maidstone, Kent

John GRAY married Mary TYLER 19 Jun 1796 St. Anne Soho, Westminster, London.  They had:
John William  chr 6 Aug 1797 Maidstone, Kent died 1870 St. John Hackney, Middlesex
Sarah Ann chr 8 May 1799 Maidstone
Dinah Louisa chr 26 Sep 1800 Maidtone
Mary Elizabeth chr 1 Aug 1802 Maidstone died 1865 Northiam, Sussex
Isabella Ann chr 24 Aug 1804 Maidstone died 1852 St. George Hanover Square, Middlesex
Ann Tyler chr 19 Aug 1806 Maidstone died 1886 Bethnal Green, Middlesex.

Mary TYLER was born ca 1774 in London and was buried 27 Apr 1852 at Maidstone.
Mary married (2) James GRAY 18 Jun 1809 East Farleigh, Kent and they had: all Maidstone

Charles chr 8 Nov 1809 mrd Rachel HILL 23 Sep 1832 East Farleigh, Kent
Jemima chr 8 Nov 1809 ?died before 1819?
George chr 30 May 1819
Jemima chr 30 May 1819 - still living in 1832 a witness to the marriage of Charles and Rachel
Thomas chr 30 May 1819

I agree completely with you that Mary TYLER first married John GRAY/GREY in 1796 and then his brother James in 1809 after John's death.  I also agree that James was most likely living with his son Charles at the time of his death on Woollett Street.

A James GRAY and my Isabella Ann GRAY were witnesses to the marriage of Isabella's sister, Mary Elizabeth GRAY to John FULLAGER in 1824 in Maidstone.  I always wondered who that James might be.  And who is this:

Maidstone All Saints.
1822 22nd Dec, by Banns
James GRAY, otp, B
Ann COOK, otp, W
Witnesses: James KNIGHT, Sarah KNIGHT.

I did a cursory look for Mary TYLER in London, particularly looking for Hammersmith around 1774, but could not find what would definitely be her.  I need to take more time and concentrate on the search.  If we go with naming patterns that were and were not adhered to, perhaps her father is William?  What do you think? 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Glenys

[rm91]

Hello Russell:  Sincere apologies for the delay, please forgive me.

Hi Glenys, apologies also for my delay! Thanks for getting back to me.

It definitely appears that it is the same Mary Tyler who married both John and James, and it does look like they were brothers. That's the first I've seen that happen in my family tree, is it that uncommon?

Thank you for the additional information on the children/siblings, that's great.

I'm pretty confident that this is now the case, when you have both John and James listed as the children of John and Mary (Evans)... I think the fact when Mary married James it had her name as Mary Tyler Gray is solid evidence too.

Kind regards,
Russell

[glenysjr]

Hello again Russell:  In answer to your question as to whether it is uncommon for someone to marry a sibling of their first spouse - I would say it was more common than not.  Although it was technically illegal to marry one's spouse's sibling, it was done and I have four or five scattered throughout my family research. 

So now we are up to the John GREY born ca 1749 and his wife Mary EVANS also born ca 1749.  I actually found a John GREY in Scotland who fits very nicely, father is Nathaniel! Might look into him a bit further.  I do wish we could sort Mary TYLER out - will just have to keep searching through the ones from London until we find one (or if we find one) who we can prove is ours.

Also, did I notice on your signature line that you have RUSSELLs from Hampshire?  I have quite a large family of RUSSELL in Hampshire, some of whom went to Australia.  If you would like to share a little of that line I could see if I have the same ones.  Are you familiar with Richard Tyler Russell who married Harriet and lived in Plumstead, Kent?

Thanks for writing back, good to hear from you.
Glenys