Author Topic: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top  (Read 4840 times)

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« on: Sunday 18 August 13 05:09 BST (UK) »
Hello there all.
Our family crest is etched into crystal glasses (very few left), decanters and table silverware.
Loosely the motto says "God sees all". Is this correct?
As I delved into my tree I talked to Hugh Cave and he said that my family (from Somerset) had no right to bear a coat of arms...??? I presume this would date back a long way?
My line of Caves were well to do in the 1800's in Stoke-sub-Hamden, and continued their fortune in Adelaide, South Australia until the first depression.  Pre 1750 I am at a deadlock, and cannot trace further ancestors.
Any thoughts on my queries?? ???
Cheers,

Chris
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 18 August 13 07:33 BST (UK) »
There is no such thing as a "family crest"!
Coats-of-arms were granted to a named individual, and only his descendants are permitted the use of the coat-of-arms.

See: http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/resources/faqs

Incidentally the crest is only that part above the helmet! I.E. the greyhound?

Pre 1837 you are going to need Parish Registers - for Somerset, mostly these are only available Somerset Heritage Centre. http://www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives/Researching.htm

The transcriptions of Stoke-sub-Hambdon show baptisms to an Isaac and Susanna Cafe, but no Caves?  See: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SOM/StokeSubHamdon/BapStH.html
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 18 August 13 11:07 BST (UK) »
There are a number of Cave lines that use the greyhound as their crest.  I assume that we can ignore those that carry items in their mouths.  This leaves the question of whether your greyhound is collared or not.  The collared lines come from Northants, Lincs and Leics with the precise lines determined by the colour of the greyhound and the collar.  However their is one line which is identified with the motto that you quote where the greyhound is sable (black) and and the collar gold that has no place identified in the books to which I have access.

The motto is quoted as meaning "beware god sees"
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 22 August 13 10:44 BST (UK) »
Thankyou both ,behindthefrogs and KGarrad for your help with my query.

I am looking at a decanter and silver spoon, the greyhound does have a collar which seems to stand out quite well, with a loop on top behind the head to tie to.
He runs over cobbles?? one shaded and one clear, 6 in a row.
Underneath that is a ribbon with the motto on it.

Unfortunately I do not have any coloured items, the decanter is etched and the silver just outlined the same.

I learn every day on this site, thankyou for the info on Coat-of-arms. Yes I will follow this up with Somerset Heritage Centre. They have been of great assistance to me previously.

Charles Cave is noted in Pitney Baptism Registrations 1734-1812 and his father, John Cave was  born in Compton Dundon in 1750. He married Sarah Hill in 1783 (Pallot's Marriage index 1780-1837) although the entry is very brief...Jno Cave.
 Somerset Heritage Centre confirmed this, and John was a Yoeman farmer as a tenant of Mr Bartlett. He was also served with a bastardy order from having a girl child to Hannah Cary, (whom I think married Samuel Sage on 27/7/1784) This happened in 1783 also. Not a very good start to a marriage!

I have found out some astounding info from you all, many thanks

Chris
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 22 August 13 12:43 BST (UK) »
What you identified as cobbles is in fact the wreath which is the usual support for a crest and in a full coat of arms sits between the crest and the helmet. This has two twists, the left hand of which is alway a metal (gold or silver) and the other always a colour. There are standard ways of indicating the colours in a black and white drawing but these are unlikely to be used on engraved silver and glass. For example if the left hand twist of the wreath was clear that would indicate it was silver, whereas small dots would indicate gold. The colours are shaded with parallel lines in a single direction with the actual direction showing the colour.  Possibly relevant, sable is shaded with both horizontal and vertical lines.

In the full coat of arms the ribbon is usually found beneath the shield.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #5 on: Friday 23 August 13 23:24 BST (UK) »
Hi there behindthefrogs,

Thanks for that info, so much to learn, no time to do it!!!!
When I find out more, I will catch up again.

Cheers, Chris
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK

Offline chriscavejones

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Re: Family Crest... CAVE DEUS VIDET...A running Greyhound at top
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 October 16 10:23 BST (UK) »
My Grandmohter was a Miss Cave before she married a Mr Jones.  We have signet rings in our family bearing a seated greyhound, not a running one, but with the same motto "Cave Deus Videt", beware God may see.  Obviously a pun on Cave.  Unfortunately I lost mine and would like to get another one made, but I am finding it very hard to find a drawing or picture on line for the jeweller to copy.  Does anyone have any good on-line resources for me to try?  The only ones I have found on-line for cave are a different family, not ours.