William Scott

[ElaineSK]

Hi, its great to find a forum for likeminded people tracing their family trees. I've done it in stops and starts when I get stuck and as we all know it can be quite costly if you have little info and land up with a common name like my great great grandfather William Scott whom I presume lived around either the Coupar Angus/Angus or Perth area. I managed to get the info for my greatgrandfather William MacGregor Scott's(postman) marriage to Janet Reid in 1893 in Markethill in the parish of Kettins and it was here there was a small amount of info on my gg father. He was a farmer,it stated he was reputed father of William Macgregor Scott and the mother Helen MacGregor was a postmistress and had died by time her son married in 1893. My ggfather William Mac has the connection to Coupar Angus having been living and working there when he married.

The details for the Scott clan so far are

my grandfather David Scott born 1895 in Coupar Angus died 1982 Kirkcaldy,Fife
my gg father William MacGregor Scott born 1837/1868? to William Scott and Helen MacGregor, he was married in 1893 at 25yrs old to Janet Reid, who was 24 parents - Alexander Reid, Crofter and Christina nee Scott - Markethill,Kettins.
and the mystery - William Scott partner? one night fling? to Helen MacGregor who died sometime after William Mac's birth in 1893.
I really am stumped because of the little info,not even sure if William lived around the Coupar Angus area as William Mac may have went there to work. If it states that William his father was a Farmer did that mean he had a farm? A lot of my other relatives from the McAndrew/Mutch side were farm servants up around Elgin. Would be greatful for any help or pointed in right direction to best search site.

[JMStrachan]

Looking up the census and using FamilySearch, I put this together:

David Scott born 1895 at Coupar, Angus
Parents William M Scott postman and Janet M Reid
1901 census at Coupar Angus, Perthshire has:
     William M Scott head 33, postman, born Perth, Perthshire
     Janet M Scott wife 32, born Clunie, Perthshire
   
     David M Scott son age 6, scholar, born Coupar Angus
     Charles M Scott son age 3, born Coupar Angus
     Alexander R Scott son age 7 months, born Coupar Angus
   
William McGregor Scott born 1868 at Perth, Perthshire
Mother Helen McGregor, reputed father William Scott
1871 census at George Street, Perth:
   
     Helen McGregor age 44 seamstress, born Logierait, Perthshire
   
     William McG Scott age 3, born Perth, Perthshire

FamilySearch has a birth for William Scott McGregor, mother Helen McGregor on 7 July 1867 which seems to have been registered at both Auchtergaven and Perth. The father must not have attended the registration of William, hence the mother had to have him registered with her surname but gave the father’s surname as a middle name. This was common practice for illegitimate children. William then went on to use the surname Scott.
   
Helen McGregor born about 1826 at Logierait
FamilySearch has a birth of Helen McGrigor (note spelling variation) in 1825 at Logierait, parents Charles McGrigor and Helen Low.
1861 census has Helen McGregor as housekeeper at Logierait to Morrice household.
   
If William’s father was William Scott, who was a farmer, the question is where did he and Helen McGregor get together? Most likely she was working as a servant/housekeeper either for his household or nearby. It's impossible to say with certainty which William Scott he was, but:

In the 1861 census there is a William Scott age 39, farmer, at Auchtergaven - he’s not married and does not have any children, but has a female servant. Could Helen McGregor have been a servant at his farm in 1866 when she fell pregnant with her son? In 1871 William Scott is at the same farm, with a female servant, but seems to have married soon after as he has a wife and children by 1881.

[ElaineSK]

Much appreciated for the quick response! Quite exciting to see things unfold thanks to your massive help! I thought I'd come to a possible dead end with William Scott as I had a feeling he must not have been part of William McGregor Scott's life. I guess it wasn't unheard of,servants falling pregnant but not deemed of same class as to marry and be mistress of the farm eh. You are a great detective, thank you for giving me this info and how lovely it is to see my grandfather,young David mentioned there:)

[Forfarian]

You need to (get someone to) have a look at the Kirk Session minutes.

The Kirk Session always took a very close interest in the arrival of illegitimate children, partly in an attempt to stamp out 'sin' in the form of fornication, and partly to make sure that the fathers of illegitimate children could be forced to contibute to their maintenance, or at least make sure that they did not become a charge on the parish.

In some cases, you get quite a lot of detail which can help to pin down the identity of the father.

I have one, for instance, that names the father and describes him as 'son of xxxx in such-and-such-a-farm'. He denied it, of course, but the Session got evidence from various people who had seen the couple drink rather too much whisky and then disappear into a barn, without any lights, for two or three hours on a dark night. This was enough to convince the Session of his 'guilt'. (He later eloped with someone else's betrothed and fled to Ireland, where he fathered a family and lived out his days fairly respectably apart from taking a pot shot at a Mr Sullivan whose only offence, it seems, was to be a Roman Catholic.

The Kirk Session records are in the National Archives Records of Scotland. They have been digitised, and can also be viewed in some other local archives. However they are not (yet?) available online, and have not been digitised.

You might also have to look up several parishes' KS minutes, because the 'case' of William Scott and Helen McGregor might have been taken up in Auchtergaven or Coupar Angus or even Perth itself. It's unlikely to be in Logierait, but not inpossible. (It was mostly the parish where the 'sin' was committed that followed it up.)

[ElaineSK]

Another big help, thanks for that info Will see if I can contact a few places re Kirk Sessions.  I am tempted to head over to the National Records of Scotland, I think for a whole day it only costs £15 which may give me more answers. Thanks again for your help Forfarian:)

[Forfarian]

If you are looking for Kirk Sessions, don't go into the Scotland's People Centre, which is the bit you pay the £15 for. Go upstairs to the Archives, which is where you can access the Kirk Session records. If have not been before, you have to get a reader's ticket, and to get that you must take an approved item of photo ID (passport, driving licence) and a separate approved document verifying your address (utility bill or bank statement), and two recent passport-type photographs. See http://www.nas.gov.uk/searchRooms/preparing.asp

[ElaineSK]

Much appreciated Forfarian,I'll go read that link and definitely follow your advice when I manage to get through to Edinburgh.

[JMStrachan]

Yes, the Kirk Session might have investigated so it's worth a look in the Session Minutes if you can get to Edinburgh. Not every case of illegitimacy is in the minutes, though, as it depends on how thoroughly the parish session chased them up: some parishes were more keen to do so than others.

There is no firm evidence that the William Scott I found in the census was the father, but there is a fair bit of circumstantial evidence. It was very common for women who worked as servants on farms to have an illegitimate child: my family tree is littered with them, hence I've become used to working out who the father might have been! They nearly always gave the child the father's name if it was a boy, and his surname if it was girl. William Scott may well have provided some financial support even though he didn't marry Helen.